we're tired of hearing "it's just a tool" because, well, a) we disagree and
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we're tired of hearing "it's just a tool" because, well, a) we disagree and
b) let's pretend that we agree. okay, it's a tool: who made it? why did they make it? what is this tool good at doing? is it any better at doing it than the previous methods by which we would do this thing? why should i use it for that? can you demonstrate the tool's utility in a situation i propose? are the tradeoffs worth the benefits? can you answer *any* of these questions?
but no, people just say "it's just a tool" and it's inevitable and we just have to get used to it, no questioning allowed, no objections allowed (see also: the cries of discrimination coming from adafruit) , and the conversation stops there. weird, huh.
@atax1a this is how I kind of feel about "well I admit there's ecological and social issues, but..." no, let's actually talk about those and if they would be worth it even if it "worked", because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be
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@atax1a this is how I kind of feel about "well I admit there's ecological and social issues, but..." no, let's actually talk about those and if they would be worth it even if it "worked", because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be
@chimerror @atax1a and when you look at the argument that they somehow would be worth it, it rests on the assumption that the things will be infinitely useful. or, at least, so incredibly useful that doing math about it is meaningless.
like... no? even if we were a utilitarian and believed that good and bad can be netted out against each other, trying to do a divide-by-zero during moral reasoning just can't possibly be correct
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@atax1a this is how I kind of feel about "well I admit there's ecological and social issues, but..." no, let's actually talk about those and if they would be worth it even if it "worked", because I'm pretty sure they wouldn't be
@atax1a and if you start in with "but when the singularity happens..." fuck off and take your religion elsewhere, I'm too busy talking to the ancestors and don't want your damn machine god
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@atax1a and if you start in with "but when the singularity happens..." fuck off and take your religion elsewhere, I'm too busy talking to the ancestors and don't want your damn machine god
@chimerror if someone said that to us we would reply
">singularity\n\nlmao"and mute them -
@atax1a well put
@ireneista @atax1a So far we have seen no justification of the use of LLMs or "generative AI" that aren't either vague and unconvincing, or clearly about mere speed or bulk volume. Not to get all Catholic here but...is it really a good idea for the tech sector to be encouraging our sins? The sin of impatience, in this case.
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@ireneista @atax1a So far we have seen no justification of the use of LLMs or "generative AI" that aren't either vague and unconvincing, or clearly about mere speed or bulk volume. Not to get all Catholic here but...is it really a good idea for the tech sector to be encouraging our sins? The sin of impatience, in this case.
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@ireneista @atax1a So far we have seen no justification of the use of LLMs or "generative AI" that aren't either vague and unconvincing, or clearly about mere speed or bulk volume. Not to get all Catholic here but...is it really a good idea for the tech sector to be encouraging our sins? The sin of impatience, in this case.
@mxchara @ireneista someone likened it to fast fashion, but downplayed the environmental impacts, and we're like, we aren't arguing from an environmental standpoint, we're arguing that, like fast fashion, the thing the LLM is good at is perhaps a thing that we should not have in the first place?
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@mxchara @ireneista someone likened it to fast fashion, but downplayed the environmental impacts, and we're like, we aren't arguing from an environmental standpoint, we're arguing that, like fast fashion, the thing the LLM is good at is perhaps a thing that we should not have in the first place?
@atax1a @ireneista that's certainly how I feel! the LLM boosters are bragging about being able to do more of the shit that's already been ruining software--just cranking the stuff out almost without caring whether it works or not
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@ireneista @mxchara @atax1a Salvation requires knowledge? Sounds an awful lot like gnostic fucking heresy. Tech men bad is my fastest thought so it is true.
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@ireneista @mxchara @atax1a Salvation requires knowledge? Sounds an awful lot like gnostic fucking heresy. Tech men bad is my fastest thought so it is true.
@Alephwyr @ireneista @atax1a I doubt that the tech people into this "generative AI" shit have a definite, well-thought-out ideology in mind when they're piling onto the bandwagon. Whatever particular hopes have been put forth by this or that exponent of technology, I'm seeing a general faith in excess at work. More is more! POWER in the Jeremy Clarkson sense
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@Alephwyr @ireneista @atax1a I doubt that the tech people into this "generative AI" shit have a definite, well-thought-out ideology in mind when they're piling onto the bandwagon. Whatever particular hopes have been put forth by this or that exponent of technology, I'm seeing a general faith in excess at work. More is more! POWER in the Jeremy Clarkson sense
@mxchara @Alephwyr @ireneista s/Jeremy Clarkson/Tim Taylor/
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@Alephwyr @ireneista @atax1a I doubt that the tech people into this "generative AI" shit have a definite, well-thought-out ideology in mind when they're piling onto the bandwagon. Whatever particular hopes have been put forth by this or that exponent of technology, I'm seeing a general faith in excess at work. More is more! POWER in the Jeremy Clarkson sense
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@ireneista to be more precise: I feel like the general crowd of tech folks who are drawn into the TESCREAL vortex are probably not deeply committed, and are simply hoping that great things will come from splurging.
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we're tired of hearing "it's just a tool" because, well, a) we disagree and
b) let's pretend that we agree. okay, it's a tool: who made it? why did they make it? what is this tool good at doing? is it any better at doing it than the previous methods by which we would do this thing? why should i use it for that? can you demonstrate the tool's utility in a situation i propose? are the tradeoffs worth the benefits? can you answer *any* of these questions?
but no, people just say "it's just a tool" and it's inevitable and we just have to get used to it, no questioning allowed, no objections allowed (see also: the cries of discrimination coming from adafruit) , and the conversation stops there. weird, huh.
@atax1a
It can be a tool when the user of the tool can verify the result. Not all tools are of equal quality. My experience producing a really quite Micky Mouse app (for instance) using CrapGPT, it generated badly written code, which at least worked. However, it hallucinated constantly in development saying “This will work”, remaining unrepentant in the face of syntax and run time errors; even blaming me. Sadly when the app needed a tweak I was abruptly hung by my own petard. -
@atax1a
It can be a tool when the user of the tool can verify the result. Not all tools are of equal quality. My experience producing a really quite Micky Mouse app (for instance) using CrapGPT, it generated badly written code, which at least worked. However, it hallucinated constantly in development saying “This will work”, remaining unrepentant in the face of syntax and run time errors; even blaming me. Sadly when the app needed a tweak I was abruptly hung by my own petard.@H4Heights i think the tool here was you
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