You know when I was a kid, anti social behaviour like cheating at a game got you ostracised in a friend's group.
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@jaredwhite I think we're at a point now where we all need to state our values openly and enforce our boundaries.
Because I'm seeing an overlap in attitude vibes with some folks. I think we're going to see more mask off moments.
There's a reason why I wrote my AI and the guy at the bar post on my cobbles blog.
I think some folks don't see collaboration as a good thing. Or Governance.
AI and that Guy at the bar
In tech we've always had evangelists, weither it's for FOSS, or Blockchain or now AI. It's a natural thing to do. You have a tech you'r...
cobbles (dotart.blog)
@onepict @jaredwhite I can’t tell you how much I’ve recommended this post to everybody that I know!
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You know when I was a kid, anti social behaviour like cheating at a game got you ostracised in a friend's group. No one would play with you anymore.
Perhaps other anti social behaviour like using LLMs to licencewash and use an existing project name should have the same outcomes. This feels like cheating, it takes the joy out of our game.
FOSS was meant to be about collaboration as much as creating software. It is play, it should be joyful.
The LLM Bro's are stealing our joy.
@onepict i really hate what LLM's are doing to collaborative creation, but also I love me some clever cheating. I think there's a refinement to the analogy possible that respects the crafty cheat.
Not that it really matters a lot, but I'll think some more about it just in case
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@jaredwhite I think we're at a point now where we all need to state our values openly and enforce our boundaries.
Because I'm seeing an overlap in attitude vibes with some folks. I think we're going to see more mask off moments.
There's a reason why I wrote my AI and the guy at the bar post on my cobbles blog.
I think some folks don't see collaboration as a good thing. Or Governance.
AI and that Guy at the bar
In tech we've always had evangelists, weither it's for FOSS, or Blockchain or now AI. It's a natural thing to do. You have a tech you'r...
cobbles (dotart.blog)
@onepict “We won't accept LLM code contributions, we do know that some LLMs can be useful. For accessibility affordances.”
I'm in the process of crafting a policy for an OSS ecosystem that's exactly along these lines. We're not trying to police people's personal use of LLMs for research, prototyping, whatever. We're also not against ML-use cases like translating.
We just don't want slop in production assets. No "agentic" code, documentation, icons, etc. Because slop is rude!
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@onepict @jaredwhite I can’t tell you how much I’ve recommended this post to everybody that I know!
@WeirdWriter @jaredwhite that touches my heart. Thank you Robert.
But you already do that with your writing.
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@onepict i really hate what LLM's are doing to collaborative creation, but also I love me some clever cheating. I think there's a refinement to the analogy possible that respects the crafty cheat.
Not that it really matters a lot, but I'll think some more about it just in case
@iwein I think it's a little like comedy in that regard.
It's the difference between punching up and punching down.
I genuinely feel LLMs are punching down on our communities.
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@iwein I think it's a little like comedy in that regard.
It's the difference between punching up and punching down.
I genuinely feel LLMs are punching down on our communities.
@onepict wow, exactly, and thanks for another perfect example why real humans are never going to be replaced by an LLM
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@jaredwhite I think we're at a point now where we all need to state our values openly and enforce our boundaries.
Because I'm seeing an overlap in attitude vibes with some folks. I think we're going to see more mask off moments.
There's a reason why I wrote my AI and the guy at the bar post on my cobbles blog.
I think some folks don't see collaboration as a good thing. Or Governance.
AI and that Guy at the bar
In tech we've always had evangelists, weither it's for FOSS, or Blockchain or now AI. It's a natural thing to do. You have a tech you'r...
cobbles (dotart.blog)
@onepict Thank you for sharing your thoughts in your blog post. You've provided some insight around some people's behavior that I had not seen as clearly as you have.
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@jaredwhite I think we're at a point now where we all need to state our values openly and enforce our boundaries.
Because I'm seeing an overlap in attitude vibes with some folks. I think we're going to see more mask off moments.
There's a reason why I wrote my AI and the guy at the bar post on my cobbles blog.
I think some folks don't see collaboration as a good thing. Or Governance.
AI and that Guy at the bar
In tech we've always had evangelists, weither it's for FOSS, or Blockchain or now AI. It's a natural thing to do. You have a tech you'r...
cobbles (dotart.blog)
@onepict Thanks for saying this so clearly. The heart of that feeling: the lack of consent that’s inextricably woven into LLM technology. This whole article…. just… thank you
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@jaredwhite I think we're at a point now where we all need to state our values openly and enforce our boundaries.
Because I'm seeing an overlap in attitude vibes with some folks. I think we're going to see more mask off moments.
There's a reason why I wrote my AI and the guy at the bar post on my cobbles blog.
I think some folks don't see collaboration as a good thing. Or Governance.
AI and that Guy at the bar
In tech we've always had evangelists, weither it's for FOSS, or Blockchain or now AI. It's a natural thing to do. You have a tech you'r...
cobbles (dotart.blog)
@onepict @jaredwhite I've been looking for a kind of group identity style or label for LLM-rejection in general. A manifesto of sorts?
If i don't find it i might have to draft one. I see parallels to other abstainsion-based group identities, tee-totaling (omg the english term is not natural to me, soberity as a movement) or heck, even veganism.
The idea of abstaining from harm, and doing this in a socially cohesive way for reasons of persuasion and adherance to a cause.
Might be smth there, what yall think?
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@onepict Thanks for saying this so clearly. The heart of that feeling: the lack of consent that’s inextricably woven into LLM technology. This whole article…. just… thank you
@meljoann I think many of us in Tech, who aren't the default of privileged cis white men have a very different experience of existence in our fields. The same for those of us outside of tech.
Tech merely can enable our society ills at scale. Especially when the people who shout loudest in our fields are privileged cis white folks. So it's very easy for me to see the harm as I've experienced it in different ways in different industries. But it comes from the same system our society runs on. -
@meljoann I think many of us in Tech, who aren't the default of privileged cis white men have a very different experience of existence in our fields. The same for those of us outside of tech.
Tech merely can enable our society ills at scale. Especially when the people who shout loudest in our fields are privileged cis white folks. So it's very easy for me to see the harm as I've experienced it in different ways in different industries. But it comes from the same system our society runs on.@meljoann Tech is a dark mirror of our society. Our current technology will further the ills. That lack of consent is everywhere in big Tech.
So when we can we must point it out.
I'm glad you agree with the article.
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@onepict @jaredwhite I've been looking for a kind of group identity style or label for LLM-rejection in general. A manifesto of sorts?
If i don't find it i might have to draft one. I see parallels to other abstainsion-based group identities, tee-totaling (omg the english term is not natural to me, soberity as a movement) or heck, even veganism.
The idea of abstaining from harm, and doing this in a socially cohesive way for reasons of persuasion and adherance to a cause.
Might be smth there, what yall think?
@kris @jaredwhite I think more of us being able to signal our values would be a good thing.
Knowing folks exist who share those values does make a difference.
My own project certainty has here:
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@onepict @jaredwhite I've been looking for a kind of group identity style or label for LLM-rejection in general. A manifesto of sorts?
If i don't find it i might have to draft one. I see parallels to other abstainsion-based group identities, tee-totaling (omg the english term is not natural to me, soberity as a movement) or heck, even veganism.
The idea of abstaining from harm, and doing this in a socially cohesive way for reasons of persuasion and adherance to a cause.
Might be smth there, what yall think?
@kris @onepict @jaredwhite don't tell anyone yet, buy I've been working on something lately, including a manifesto, I just don't feel it's quite there: https://naysayers.club/ ( @naysayers_club). If it's along the lines of what you're looking for, you're very welcome to join the party (I mean club, of course) and help getting it ready for opening the doors for all the naysayers I know are out there.
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@kris @onepict @jaredwhite don't tell anyone yet, buy I've been working on something lately, including a manifesto, I just don't feel it's quite there: https://naysayers.club/ ( @naysayers_club). If it's along the lines of what you're looking for, you're very welcome to join the party (I mean club, of course) and help getting it ready for opening the doors for all the naysayers I know are out there.
Ok to boost?
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@kris @jaredwhite I think more of us being able to signal our values would be a good thing.
Knowing folks exist who share those values does make a difference.
My own project certainty has here:
@onepict @kris @jaredwhite
Some days, I think that I'm being too subtle by only putting
in my profile's display name. -
@onepict @kris @jaredwhite
Some days, I think that I'm being too subtle by only putting in my profile's display name.@dec23k @kris @jaredwhite Well we all remember Maven, ingestion just apparently happens sometimes
Happy Bi-visibility Day!
CW: Internalised Bi-phobia I've had my bi-flag up on my profile over the summer. It's on my handle on Mastodon. Which gives me a mild ...
cobbles (dotart.blog)
"It still feels new, and while the Fediverse is the open web, I still felt a bit of brief fear when the Maven ingest happened to 1.12 million Fediverse posts. I saw my profile name, on a network I had never even heard of, or posted on. The bi flag is on my profile name. With my posts being used to train an AI set."
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You know when I was a kid, anti social behaviour like cheating at a game got you ostracised in a friend's group. No one would play with you anymore.
Perhaps other anti social behaviour like using LLMs to licencewash and use an existing project name should have the same outcomes. This feels like cheating, it takes the joy out of our game.
FOSS was meant to be about collaboration as much as creating software. It is play, it should be joyful.
The LLM Bro's are stealing our joy.
-
R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
