If in the EU. Try WERO and tell your bank how to make it better if you truly care about an alternative to PayPal and the Visa/Master duopoly.
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@jwildeboer WERO sounds really interesting.
Are you aware of anybody who's written it up for the technical layman? It sounds like a P2P protocol between banks, but I can't imagine there's no central control at all.
@mattb @jwildeboer it is basically a layer above sepa instant that uses mail/phone to find the iban.
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@mattb @jwildeboer it is basically a layer above sepa instant that uses mail/phone to find the iban.
@farshidhakimy … that uses a privacy preserving hash based on mail/phone to find … /pedantic @mattb
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@jwildeboer als in Spanien lebender: bizum ist so cool und praktisch und funktioniert. Von Person zu Person, aber auch bei Ikea etc. Ich hoffe wero und bizum finden zusammen… wahrscheinlich nicht…
@codingGarden Doch, die Verträge sind unterschrieben. https://epicompany.eu/media-insights/europa-and-epi-launch-collaboration-to-expand-sovereign-pan-european-payments
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@jwildeboer of course it is already a large potential userbase to start with, and work out the kinks in the system. But to become successful, also for international payments, it has to be rolled out further, which will take time.
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@schmitzel76 yep, my primary bank is Dutch, so I'm still waiting for anything substantial to happen…
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@louisleblanc It's also available on the Apple App Store. And I never talked about sovereignty, I do talk about an alternative to PayPal and the Visa/Master duopoly?
@jwildeboer yeah I was just kind of raging about european apps being only on the play store which I absolutely hate because of the lack of sovereignty
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The expected „yes, but“ is strong in the replies.
(I will now go to bed, so the "yes,, but" crowd will have its playing field until I wake up again and post friendly replies with links on how they are wrong. My advice: Try Wero, note it isn't perfect, tell Wero and your bank what is needed for you to switch fully. We can do this 
"But I have Bizum and it's so good" -> It joins Wero https://epicompany.eu/media-insights/europa-and-epi-launch-collaboration-to-expand-sovereign-pan-european-payments
"But I have iDeal and it's so good" -> It joins Wero https://ideal.nl/en/naar-wero
"My bank doesn't support it" -> Other banks do, switch, maybe?
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If in the EU. Try WERO and tell your bank how to make it better if you truly care about an alternative to PayPal and the Visa/Master duopoly. Don’t expect the perfect solution. Understand that alternatives are never better or perfect from the get-go but that we need to tell them through using them how to become better and better. Be a pioneer, not a follower
Wero - Digital payment wallet
Experience fast and secure digital payments with Wero’s wallet, enabling you to send and receive money between bank accounts in under 10 seconds.
(wero-wallet.eu)
@jwildeboer I've told my bank to start supporting it, so I can try using it
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@farshidhakimy Wero isn't US based. That's something, isn't it? And paying with cash is always the better alternative
@jwildeboer it _could_ help reducing the impact from foreign sanctions against individuals, but it doesn't make small payments more privacy friendly than sepa payments.
I don't think it should be recommended only because it is european, because even with wero, your payments are not really private.
Instead of PayPal knowing who you are paying, now one or two banks will know. And the data being in europe doesn't make it impossible to abuse it. -
@jwildeboer it _could_ help reducing the impact from foreign sanctions against individuals, but it doesn't make small payments more privacy friendly than sepa payments.
I don't think it should be recommended only because it is european, because even with wero, your payments are not really private.
Instead of PayPal knowing who you are paying, now one or two banks will know. And the data being in europe doesn't make it impossible to abuse it.@farshidhakimy Making a transfer from one account to another always means that two banks know about the transaction. That's how SEPA works. What gets cut out is the middle man (PayPal, Visa/Master) getting that data. And that is a good thing in my book. If you want anonymous transactions, cash is your friend
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@andre Tell that to your bank, not to me
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If in the EU. Try WERO and tell your bank how to make it better if you truly care about an alternative to PayPal and the Visa/Master duopoly. Don’t expect the perfect solution. Understand that alternatives are never better or perfect from the get-go but that we need to tell them through using them how to become better and better. Be a pioneer, not a follower
Wero - Digital payment wallet
Experience fast and secure digital payments with Wero’s wallet, enabling you to send and receive money between bank accounts in under 10 seconds.
(wero-wallet.eu)
@jwildeboer hell yeah!
Write to banks about improvement. Be friendly, be specific, tell them you like their service. Tell them exactly what's wrong or what you're missing. They love constructive feedback.
I know because I did exactly this. And now the app store links from my bank's website to the Wero app, point to the actual Wero app. Not erroneously to their 2FA app. Small thing, but an improvement. Got a nice thank you email too
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If in the EU. Try WERO and tell your bank how to make it better if you truly care about an alternative to PayPal and the Visa/Master duopoly. Don’t expect the perfect solution. Understand that alternatives are never better or perfect from the get-go but that we need to tell them through using them how to become better and better. Be a pioneer, not a follower
Wero - Digital payment wallet
Experience fast and secure digital payments with Wero’s wallet, enabling you to send and receive money between bank accounts in under 10 seconds.
(wero-wallet.eu)
@jwildeboer
yes and:
try to support NGI Taler (by telling legislators maybe?) for another alternative. Pilot project in
is live and can be used.
https://www.taler.net/en/ngi-taler.html -
@maswaba @jwildeboer @Larvitz GLS macht Wero. Als ich da hin bin, ging das damals
recht einfach. Aber ich kann mich nicht mehr im Detail erinnern.@prefec2 @maswaba @jwildeboer @Larvitz ING als eine große Direktbank macht ebenfalls WERO, wenn auch es nur sehr einfach in die App reingeklöppelt wurde.
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@jwildeboer hell yeah!
Write to banks about improvement. Be friendly, be specific, tell them you like their service. Tell them exactly what's wrong or what you're missing. They love constructive feedback.
I know because I did exactly this. And now the app store links from my bank's website to the Wero app, point to the actual Wero app. Not erroneously to their 2FA app. Small thing, but an improvement. Got a nice thank you email too
@jwildeboer and start nudging shops as well: https://mstdn.social/@grob/115866150143193951 (German)
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@Commander_KEEN Commerzbank "Wir beobachten diese Entwicklung interessiert und evaluieren vor allem die Abhängigkeiten zu einer möglichen Einführung eines digitalen Euro." [1] So talk to them and tell them you really want Wero now.
Neue Ära im Zahlungsverkehr - Konzern-Webseite
Instant-Payment-Regulatorik schafft eine neue Ära im Zahlungsverkehr
Konzern-Webseite (www.commerzbank.de)
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@farshidhakimy Making a transfer from one account to another always means that two banks know about the transaction. That's how SEPA works. What gets cut out is the middle man (PayPal, Visa/Master) getting that data. And that is a good thing in my book. If you want anonymous transactions, cash is your friend
@jwildeboer I do agree that sepa is better.
But my point was that sepa itself isn't privacy friendly.
I don't think we should embrace projects like wero when banks could instead work on gnu taler.
Wero being a success would mean that the future of money won't be privacy friendly in the eu, especially because they are also working on making nfc payments possible.
And unfortunately cash availability is getting worse.
People that prefer cash are already penalized today, f.e. at self checkouts. -
@jeroen Switzerland isn't EU member, so they will always have their own thing that I can't use when visiting there. But cash still works
You did note how I started this thread with "If in the EU. Try WERO ..."? -
The expected „yes, but“ is strong in the replies.
(I will now go to bed, so the "yes,, but" crowd will have its playing field until I wake up again and post friendly replies with links on how they are wrong. My advice: Try Wero, note it isn't perfect, tell Wero and your bank what is needed for you to switch fully. We can do this @jwildeboer I tried it on two banks.. On both ends I reached out to the customer support. They filed an issue which both are not resolved until today..
