There was an article about moving to Codeberg on the orange website yesterday, and out of interest to get an impression of what average programmers think of the idea of moving, I took at look at the comments.
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Codeberg is different.
Codeberg is a non-profit.
Moreover, it is a *democratic* non-profit. You can (and, if you actively use Codeberg, should) become a member and you will have an equal vote and a fair say in the running of the association, and in any decisions we make about what to offer and what not to offer.
This democratic right is guaranteed to you not only by our constitution, but by German law, which guarantees that the membership as a whole has the ultimate decision-making power.
So no, we don’t offer massive CI resources, unlimited repo quotas, etc.
What we offer is different: if self-hosting isn’t for you, but you still want to know that your repo hosting is not at the whims of Microsoft’s bottom line, Codeberg is for you.
If the Codeberg service you depend on goes away, it won’t be from one day to the next in order to boost our income. We will warn you about the reasons, ask you and the other members what you think, and you’ll have a chance to change things.
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So no, we don’t offer massive CI resources, unlimited repo quotas, etc.
What we offer is different: if self-hosting isn’t for you, but you still want to know that your repo hosting is not at the whims of Microsoft’s bottom line, Codeberg is for you.
If the Codeberg service you depend on goes away, it won’t be from one day to the next in order to boost our income. We will warn you about the reasons, ask you and the other members what you think, and you’ll have a chance to change things.
(This thread reflects only my own views and not those of the remainder of the Codeberg presidium, board – nor (most importantly) does it reflect the views of the members of Codeberg as a whole, who ultimately make the decisions.)
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(This thread reflects only my own views and not those of the remainder of the Codeberg presidium, board – nor (most importantly) does it reflect the views of the members of Codeberg as a whole, who ultimately make the decisions.)
And I have a positive example for this, too: our Pages service was going to go away because nobody wanted to maintain it any more.
But we asked the community, and they really wanted a Pages service.
So a heroic volunteer (thank you @whitequark) stepped up to write us new infrastructure, and our infra team found the time and motivation to work on patching up the existing infra. And now the future of Codeberg Pages is safe – because the community told us they wanted it.
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And I have a positive example for this, too: our Pages service was going to go away because nobody wanted to maintain it any more.
But we asked the community, and they really wanted a Pages service.
So a heroic volunteer (thank you @whitequark) stepped up to write us new infrastructure, and our infra team found the time and motivation to work on patching up the existing infra. And now the future of Codeberg Pages is safe – because the community told us they wanted it.
There are limitations that come with being a non-profit association in Germany.
Something that was mentioned in the thread is why don’t we let people and organizations pay for more resources. One answer – apart from the fact that we’ve only just reached the size where we start to get such requests – is that, under our current legal form, we can’t really do this. A non-profit association cannot offer commercial services.
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There are limitations that come with being a non-profit association in Germany.
Something that was mentioned in the thread is why don’t we let people and organizations pay for more resources. One answer – apart from the fact that we’ve only just reached the size where we start to get such requests – is that, under our current legal form, we can’t really do this. A non-profit association cannot offer commercial services.
There are a couple of options being explored here:
1. We *could* maybe offer some things like increased quotas to association members. That possibility has been mentioned before as a possibility but no action towards this has been taken yet afaik.
2. Some interested members of Codeberg have, in their private capacity, been investigating offering e.g. a hosted CI runner service that would have seamless integration with Codeberg.
Nothing solid on either front yet, though.
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There are a couple of options being explored here:
1. We *could* maybe offer some things like increased quotas to association members. That possibility has been mentioned before as a possibility but no action towards this has been taken yet afaik.
2. Some interested members of Codeberg have, in their private capacity, been investigating offering e.g. a hosted CI runner service that would have seamless integration with Codeberg.
Nothing solid on either front yet, though.
(This thread reflects only my own views and not those of the remainder of the Codeberg presidium, board – nor (most importantly) does it reflect the views of the members of Codeberg as a whole, who ultimately make the decisions.)
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Forge federation is something we’re actively pushing for because of this. Full federation support is still a few years ahead of us, probably, but you can already set up your own forge in a way that minimizes inconvenience to users by using Codeberg as a single sign-on provider for a self-hosted forge.
https://git.madhouse-project.org/, which hosts the Iocaine project, is a great example of this. If you set up Codeberg as SSO for your own site, almost all of our content rules are irrelevant to you.
@dpk Oh wow, I did not know you could do this!
When federation does eventually come around, is it planned for forges that are set up like this to "migrate" painlessly?(Sorry if this is a dumb question. I am not sure how this stuff is set up.)
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(This thread reflects only my own views and not those of the remainder of the Codeberg presidium, board – nor (most importantly) does it reflect the views of the members of Codeberg as a whole, who ultimately make the decisions.)
In general, I think Codeberg stands for a future in which people are a lot more suspicious of free goodies given to the FOSS community by for-profit companies.
But it also stands for a world in which self-hosting is not the only practical alternative to the present situation. We stand for community-run infrastructure, volunteering to provide a common good, and making decisions for the benefit of all.
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
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In general, I think Codeberg stands for a future in which people are a lot more suspicious of free goodies given to the FOSS community by for-profit companies.
But it also stands for a world in which self-hosting is not the only practical alternative to the present situation. We stand for community-run infrastructure, volunteering to provide a common good, and making decisions for the benefit of all.
Some other people were concerned about our uptime in comparison to GitHub. Fortunately, GitHub has recently been taking care of that concern for us
My personal feeling, as a user, is that Codeberg’s uptime is acceptable for what the site provides. If you are seriously messed up by your forge maybe being down for an hour or two a week, don’t use Codeberg: self-host!
Fortunately, as a FOSS site, the chance of anything as important as a ‘profit margin’ depending on our uptime is very low
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Some other people were concerned about our uptime in comparison to GitHub. Fortunately, GitHub has recently been taking care of that concern for us
My personal feeling, as a user, is that Codeberg’s uptime is acceptable for what the site provides. If you are seriously messed up by your forge maybe being down for an hour or two a week, don’t use Codeberg: self-host!
Fortunately, as a FOSS site, the chance of anything as important as a ‘profit margin’ depending on our uptime is very low
(Also, I will at this point plead size. Our small infra team is frequently overworked to the point that I’m often concerned about the effect on their personal health. Again, please become a member and get involved)
(Furthermore, this thread reflects only my own views and not those of the remainder of the Codeberg presidium, board – nor (most importantly) does it reflect the views of the members of Codeberg as a whole, who ultimately make the decisions.)
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(Also, I will at this point plead size. Our small infra team is frequently overworked to the point that I’m often concerned about the effect on their personal health. Again, please become a member and get involved)
(Furthermore, this thread reflects only my own views and not those of the remainder of the Codeberg presidium, board – nor (most importantly) does it reflect the views of the members of Codeberg as a whole, who ultimately make the decisions.)
Something else I saw is that our messaging on what private repositories can be used for with us is not clear enough.
To take the opportunity to clarify here:
• Private repositories are absolutely allowed, but subject to rules, just like public repositories are subject to rules
• Using a private repository for a software project that you’re not yet ready to release publically is absolutely okay
• Using a private repository for personal software you wrote for your own use only is absolutely okay -
Something else I saw is that our messaging on what private repositories can be used for with us is not clear enough.
To take the opportunity to clarify here:
• Private repositories are absolutely allowed, but subject to rules, just like public repositories are subject to rules
• Using a private repository for a software project that you’re not yet ready to release publically is absolutely okay
• Using a private repository for personal software you wrote for your own use only is absolutely okayModeratorially speaking, we tend to regard accounts with *only* private repos as a red flag (and such people who have accounts like that are usually rejected as active/voting members if they apply). But they’re allowed as long as their size remains reasonable.
The rules are there because unfortunately, we do see blatant abuse of our resources (like people uploading their whole home directory to a private repo as a personal backup).
I think we should work on making our rules about this clearer!
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@dpk Oh wow, I did not know you could do this!
When federation does eventually come around, is it planned for forges that are set up like this to "migrate" painlessly?(Sorry if this is a dumb question. I am not sure how this stuff is set up.)
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Forge federation is something we’re actively pushing for because of this. Full federation support is still a few years ahead of us, probably, but you can already set up your own forge in a way that minimizes inconvenience to users by using Codeberg as a single sign-on provider for a self-hosted forge.
https://git.madhouse-project.org/, which hosts the Iocaine project, is a great example of this. If you set up Codeberg as SSO for your own site, almost all of our content rules are irrelevant to you.
@dpk yesss
my biggest problem with the present code forge situation is that you have an unfortunately very binary option of "have a totally centralised ecosystem" and "have 30000 different forgejo instances that clog up my password manager"
i have i think 6 code forge accounts. i do not want or need 6 code forge accounts.
federation or even just SSO would be such a boon for this
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There are a couple of options being explored here:
1. We *could* maybe offer some things like increased quotas to association members. That possibility has been mentioned before as a possibility but no action towards this has been taken yet afaik.
2. Some interested members of Codeberg have, in their private capacity, been investigating offering e.g. a hosted CI runner service that would have seamless integration with Codeberg.
Nothing solid on either front yet, though.
@dpk would the option that e.g. signal and mozzila take work, with a private enterprise managing the paid products fully owned by a nonprofit?
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Forge federation is something we’re actively pushing for because of this. Full federation support is still a few years ahead of us, probably, but you can already set up your own forge in a way that minimizes inconvenience to users by using Codeberg as a single sign-on provider for a self-hosted forge.
https://git.madhouse-project.org/, which hosts the Iocaine project, is a great example of this. If you set up Codeberg as SSO for your own site, almost all of our content rules are irrelevant to you.
@dpk
One thing that would IMHO help for federation without full support would be to allow creating pull requests from any public Git repo.
I *think* it shouldn't be super hard?
Might require an "Update" button to pull in new changes (vs the local ones where pushed changes update the PR automatically), but otherwise I think it could work quite well and, together with the SSO you mentioned, be a very good start until full federation support is done -
Forge federation is something we’re actively pushing for because of this. Full federation support is still a few years ahead of us, probably, but you can already set up your own forge in a way that minimizes inconvenience to users by using Codeberg as a single sign-on provider for a self-hosted forge.
https://git.madhouse-project.org/, which hosts the Iocaine project, is a great example of this. If you set up Codeberg as SSO for your own site, almost all of our content rules are irrelevant to you.
@dpk This is something I've been dreaming of, I'm glad to see you're thinking about it already.
