I want men to stop giving women advice that's like "If you get hit on in an inappropriate place / situation you need to be blunt!
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@Mab_813 I agree and as man I would hope the woman would ask for help
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I want men to stop giving women advice that's like "If you get hit on in an inappropriate place / situation you need to be blunt! If you are nice / polite, the creep will see that as an invitation!"
Do we really have to tell you why a woman might choose a de-escalating tactic??
You need to realize that as a woman, we can't win in this situation. We will either get told that we were "nice, thereby flirty", or (when blunt) that we're arrogant and awful (And there's the risk the man might get angry & aggressive!).
Also, instead of telling women how to react, tell off your male friends when they're creeps.
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@Rhube @Robo105 @Mab_813 This. Also, don’t worry about stepping in in a situation that seems off even when you’re not sure: It’s relatively easy to tell someone on your own side to step back in case it was fine after all and that would be merely a tiny bit awkward, as opposed to the horror of helplessness while everyone around just keeps watching waiting for it to get 'bad enough' (aka too late).
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I want men to stop giving women advice that's like "If you get hit on in an inappropriate place / situation you need to be blunt! If you are nice / polite, the creep will see that as an invitation!"
Do we really have to tell you why a woman might choose a de-escalating tactic??
You need to realize that as a woman, we can't win in this situation. We will either get told that we were "nice, thereby flirty", or (when blunt) that we're arrogant and awful (And there's the risk the man might get angry & aggressive!).
Also, instead of telling women how to react, tell off your male friends when they're creeps.
@Mab_813 this is the best explanation of this I've ever read. https://bikepacking.com/plog/man-or-bear-debate/
"I need to get away from the man. But I need to do it in a way that doesn’t anger him. This is the tricky bit. Men who lack social awareness or empathy often also lack other skills in emotional management. And usually, what men in these situations actually want is closeness. They’re trying to get closer to me, physically or emotionally, in the only way they know how. That combination of poor emotional skillsets and a desire to get closer is exactly what puts me in danger.
If I deny his attempts at closeness by leaving or setting a boundary, he could feel frustrated, rejected, or ashamed. If he doesn’t know how to recognize or manage those feelings, he’s likely to experience them as anger. And then I’m a solo woman stuck in a forest with an angry man, which is exactly what women are most afraid of.
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@Mab_813 this is the best explanation of this I've ever read. https://bikepacking.com/plog/man-or-bear-debate/
"I need to get away from the man. But I need to do it in a way that doesn’t anger him. This is the tricky bit. Men who lack social awareness or empathy often also lack other skills in emotional management. And usually, what men in these situations actually want is closeness. They’re trying to get closer to me, physically or emotionally, in the only way they know how. That combination of poor emotional skillsets and a desire to get closer is exactly what puts me in danger.
If I deny his attempts at closeness by leaving or setting a boundary, he could feel frustrated, rejected, or ashamed. If he doesn’t know how to recognize or manage those feelings, he’s likely to experience them as anger. And then I’m a solo woman stuck in a forest with an angry man, which is exactly what women are most afraid of.
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@Mab_813 There’s no time to think, so I operate on instinct. My task is ridiculously complex. I need to deescalate any signs of aggression, guide the man into a state of emotional balance, and exit the situation safely, all at once. This process requires all of my attention, energy, and intellect. It’s really hard.
I’ve been in this position so many times that it exhausts me just to write about it. Sometimes, it’s not that I’m afraid of men; I’m just really, really tired. "
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@Mab_813 I agree and as man I would hope the woman would ask for help
@Robo105 @Mab_813 I think this was probably well intentioned, but put yourself in the woman's position for a second, who is she supposed to ask for help? If she asks a random guy she has no way of knowing whether he'll turn out to be just as bad and try and force himself on her because he expects her to be grateful for rescuing her. Women look out for each other, and asking a woman for help is safer, but this guy's already shown that he doesn't respect women so now you've pulled more women into the firing line
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R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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I want men to stop giving women advice that's like "If you get hit on in an inappropriate place / situation you need to be blunt! If you are nice / polite, the creep will see that as an invitation!"
Do we really have to tell you why a woman might choose a de-escalating tactic??
You need to realize that as a woman, we can't win in this situation. We will either get told that we were "nice, thereby flirty", or (when blunt) that we're arrogant and awful (And there's the risk the man might get angry & aggressive!).
Also, instead of telling women how to react, tell off your male friends when they're creeps.
@Mab_813 I was once mannsplained by a dude how I should react towards creepy men. That dude ended touching me in an inappropriate way, and yelling at me and calling me names when I dared to seek help from his creepy behaviour.
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@Mab_813 I agree and as man I would hope the woman would ask for help
@Robo105 @Mab_813
Sure, because just by looking around we can automatically tell who will help us vs. who will help our (potential) attacker
.If you see a woman potentially in distress or about to be in a distressing situation go & politely ask if everything is fine & make sure you know all the hidden signals for an SOS.
It's on men to stop making victims, never the otherway round.
You wouldn't tell a child that they shouldn't have been alone with their uncle after they've been raped by that uncle would you?
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I want men to stop giving women advice that's like "If you get hit on in an inappropriate place / situation you need to be blunt! If you are nice / polite, the creep will see that as an invitation!"
Do we really have to tell you why a woman might choose a de-escalating tactic??
You need to realize that as a woman, we can't win in this situation. We will either get told that we were "nice, thereby flirty", or (when blunt) that we're arrogant and awful (And there's the risk the man might get angry & aggressive!).
Also, instead of telling women how to react, tell off your male friends when they're creeps.
@Mab_813 I go with the "Too crazy to stick a dick in" method.
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I want men to stop giving women advice that's like "If you get hit on in an inappropriate place / situation you need to be blunt! If you are nice / polite, the creep will see that as an invitation!"
Do we really have to tell you why a woman might choose a de-escalating tactic??
You need to realize that as a woman, we can't win in this situation. We will either get told that we were "nice, thereby flirty", or (when blunt) that we're arrogant and awful (And there's the risk the man might get angry & aggressive!).
Also, instead of telling women how to react, tell off your male friends when they're creeps.
@AdaraAstin @Mab_813 Or just be like some people and consider any type of friendly interaction from a woman as just being friendly even if they really were flirting so you don't misread their intentions.
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@Robo105 @Mab_813
Sure, because just by looking around we can automatically tell who will help us vs. who will help our (potential) attacker.If you see a woman potentially in distress or about to be in a distressing situation go & politely ask if everything is fine & make sure you know all the hidden signals for an SOS.
It's on men to stop making victims, never the otherway round.
You wouldn't tell a child that they shouldn't have been alone with their uncle after they've been raped by that uncle would you?
@Soldusty @Mab_813 I think you are making great points and I didn't mean to suggest it is a woman's responsibility. As a man I have taught my son about being a active bystander who helps and I hope I would also help. My point which I made in a clumsy was that a man is not always sure about the situation.
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@Robo105 @Mab_813 I think this was probably well intentioned, but put yourself in the woman's position for a second, who is she supposed to ask for help? If she asks a random guy she has no way of knowing whether he'll turn out to be just as bad and try and force himself on her because he expects her to be grateful for rescuing her. Women look out for each other, and asking a woman for help is safer, but this guy's already shown that he doesn't respect women so now you've pulled more women into the firing line
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@Rhube @Robo105 @Mab_813 This. Also, don’t worry about stepping in in a situation that seems off even when you’re not sure: It’s relatively easy to tell someone on your own side to step back in case it was fine after all and that would be merely a tiny bit awkward, as opposed to the horror of helplessness while everyone around just keeps watching waiting for it to get 'bad enough' (aka too late).
@trisschen @Rhube @Mab_813 I think you have made a much better point that I was trying to do in a clumsy way.
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@Soldusty @Mab_813 I think you are making great points and I didn't mean to suggest it is a woman's responsibility. As a man I have taught my son about being a active bystander who helps and I hope I would also help. My point which I made in a clumsy was that a man is not always sure about the situation.
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@Robo105 @Mab_813 first of all thank you for the apology, I appreciate that. I think where a lot of the sort of decent men who _wouldn't_ attack a woman go wrong in imagining these scenarios is picturing themselves as the bystander who would help a woman if asked without demanding anything in return. But you need to be picturing yourselves as the woman instead. You know you're safe, but she has no way of knowing that. Only a minority of men are likely to be dangerous, but without any way of predicting whether any random man like yourself is one of them it's a dangerous gamble for her to take.
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@Robo105 @Mab_813 first of all thank you for the apology, I appreciate that. I think where a lot of the sort of decent men who _wouldn't_ attack a woman go wrong in imagining these scenarios is picturing themselves as the bystander who would help a woman if asked without demanding anything in return. But you need to be picturing yourselves as the woman instead. You know you're safe, but she has no way of knowing that. Only a minority of men are likely to be dangerous, but without any way of predicting whether any random man like yourself is one of them it's a dangerous gamble for her to take.
@afewbugs @Mab_813 I have to agree that men and women live in different worlds and sadly for women it is a much more dangerous world. I think another response provided a much better answer than I did.
"If you see a woman potentially in distress or about to be in a distressing situation go & politely ask if everything is fine & make sure you know all the hidden signals for an SOS." -
@Robo105 @Mab_813
Sure, because just by looking around we can automatically tell who will help us vs. who will help our (potential) attacker.If you see a woman potentially in distress or about to be in a distressing situation go & politely ask if everything is fine & make sure you know all the hidden signals for an SOS.
It's on men to stop making victims, never the otherway round.
You wouldn't tell a child that they shouldn't have been alone with their uncle after they've been raped by that uncle would you?
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@afewbugs @Mab_813 I have to agree that men and women live in different worlds and sadly for women it is a much more dangerous world. I think another response provided a much better answer than I did.
"If you see a woman potentially in distress or about to be in a distressing situation go & politely ask if everything is fine & make sure you know all the hidden signals for an SOS."@Robo105 @Mab_813 I don't know if you saw this post about men and women inhabiting different worlds, but it seems to have been quite an eye opener for many https://mastodon.world/@davidnjoku/113436907872665984
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