Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Yeah, I think it's a gender thing, but it's mainly about how privileged men are enculturated to talk over anyone, not just over women.
I do it all the time, and don't notice until I'm already doing it. I notice most often when I'm talking over anyone woman, because that's something I've been taught to pay attention to. But I don't feel like I know a lot about how to prevent myself talking over people in the first place. I can say stuff like that“Sorry, I think I cut you off there”, or “You go”, or “What do you think, Linda?” but those are retroactive acknowledgements that I've already talked too much. I'd like to be better at actually centering others first.
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@alice Yeah, I think it's a gender thing, but it's mainly about how privileged men are enculturated to talk over anyone, not just over women.
I do it all the time, and don't notice until I'm already doing it. I notice most often when I'm talking over anyone woman, because that's something I've been taught to pay attention to. But I don't feel like I know a lot about how to prevent myself talking over people in the first place. I can say stuff like that“Sorry, I think I cut you off there”, or “You go”, or “What do you think, Linda?” but those are retroactive acknowledgements that I've already talked too much. I'd like to be better at actually centering others first.
@isaacfreeman @alice
A random data point: I stopped interrupting people once I started taking Adderall. I've compared notes with two other women who also take some version of Adderall, and they said they had the same experience -
@isaacfreeman @alice
A random data point: I stopped interrupting people once I started taking Adderall. I've compared notes with two other women who also take some version of Adderall, and they said they had the same experience -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice@lgbtqia.space another thing
ive noticed some people have a uh talent for talking at people without giving any gaps for people to come in
like
i really want to says smth but like u haven't given me space to say anything
and its only possible to converse with such people if you are comfortable interrupting people which i am not(unless i know you well) -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I appreciate you sharing this, though it’s unfortunate to have happened at all. Even as a man (and to be clear, I’m not intending to compare by any means), I’ve run into a similar “lack of respect on merits,” if you will, because I’m… at least polite enough to believe interrupting people is rude unless there’s objective urgency!
It’s as if these people equate playground bullying tactics to proper communication, if not something even more ludicrous.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
The culture of a company or board is what the leadership allows. While certainly assertiveness is important, your former CEO suggesting that instead of soliciting, encouraging and listening to contributions from everyone is just poor leadership.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice That might actually explain why most of the high-ranking (super-white) women in my corporate job are much more likely to interrupt people than any other women I've met. Corporate culture is one of bulldozing over everything in your way, so the people who do well there either learn to do the same without respect for who they trample, or are that way from the start.
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@isaacfreeman @alice You aren't the grandchild of Serbian immigrants, I take it.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice You can actually train yourself to keep talking when someone attempts to interrupt you. Eventually they stfu. But it does take practice.
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@isaacfreeman @alice The first time my Arkansas grandmother visited my grandfather's family (in a coal town in Pennsylvania), she excused herself a little early to go to bed, listened to the conversation in the other room, thought "these loud, angry Serbs will murder me in my sleep!", and snuck out the window to start walking back to the bus station. My grandfather realized she was missing, caught her on the road, and asked what was up. She told him. He answered, "but that's how we love each other! It's only with people you love and trust that you can shout and argue and pound on the table!"
Even two generations later, with me being a professional mediator, my family is not good at polite back and forth in conversations. If you can't hold your own in the after-dinner conversation, get out of the arena! It makes my (French roots) wife crazy.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I have a co worker that complains a lot that no one asks questions or says anything besides him in meetings.
I started to interrupt him when he says stuff like "... But no one else seems to have to add anything" and explain to him that if he wants others to talk he needs to shut up for a second.
He slowly starts to get it. But it's weird that he seemingly didn't understand before that you can't just keep talking and expect a discussion to happen. -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Might be anecdotal but at my old workplace, interrupting was absolutely required because people had no interest in receiving feedback and held 5-minutes-long monologues every time they opened their mouth. By the end you had a dozen points of important feedback and even if you were lucky enough to speak up before someone else did, your first point would be answered with another 5 minute monologue.
You had to interrupt to be heard. It sucked. We need a better meeting culture.
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@alice Might be anecdotal but at my old workplace, interrupting was absolutely required because people had no interest in receiving feedback and held 5-minutes-long monologues every time they opened their mouth. By the end you had a dozen points of important feedback and even if you were lucky enough to speak up before someone else did, your first point would be answered with another 5 minute monologue.
You had to interrupt to be heard. It sucked. We need a better meeting culture.
@alice And of course, the same people who took up 90% of a meeting with their monologues still got mad when you interrupted them because *obviously* their opinion was more important than yours.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I see this all the time and I hate it so much.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice Not all men, but most men. I wish that could go without saying... Men that don't talk over others get talked over too.
Bad behavior systemically rewarded. (This topic reminds me of Leaders Eat Last - Simon Senek) -
Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice As a trans I can get dysphoric having to meet them where they're at like that but I also love playing that game soooooo
I've just femenized my confidence over time. Ultimately good men feel respected when you treat them as an equal and expect the same.
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Recently, I was thinking about why men¹ talk over women, and I think it's less a gender thing, and more of a...
"men¹ are taught to talk over anyone who doesn't talk more assertively than they do"
In my roles as an executive at several tech companies, the one negative feedback I got on almost every review was that I wasn't assertive enough in meetings with other execs. One male CEO even told me "you need to interrupt more, talk more—even if you don't know the answer. Otherwise they'll think you don't have anything to say". Which, honestly, churned my stomach.
The feedback was clear, if I wanted to succeed I needed to talk like the guys¹ in the boardroom—the same ones¹ who'd interrupt to ask a question I was already in the middle of explaining, who'd repeat a suggestion I'd just made—only louder, who'd make some cute comment that would derail my presentation, who'd explain my position back to me as though they'd just thought of it.
I needed to do that...and I needed to do it louder.
Otherwise men¹ weren't going to listen to me.
¹ not all men
@alice I hate interrupting, I find it very rude and I don't do it irl and in my job, which involves a lot of presentations. One of my directors interrupts on regular basis, often asking about the previous topic just after I move on, although she is a softly spoken person, although I blame Teams for that. Face to face she interrpts much quicker, often takes over, then starts telling others what to do and forgets that I was presenting, so I have to remind her. I try to see the funny side of it.
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@alice Yeah, I think it's a gender thing, but it's mainly about how privileged men are enculturated to talk over anyone, not just over women.
I do it all the time, and don't notice until I'm already doing it. I notice most often when I'm talking over anyone woman, because that's something I've been taught to pay attention to. But I don't feel like I know a lot about how to prevent myself talking over people in the first place. I can say stuff like that“Sorry, I think I cut you off there”, or “You go”, or “What do you think, Linda?” but those are retroactive acknowledgements that I've already talked too much. I'd like to be better at actually centering others first.
@isaacfreeman
@alice
Idk if this is helpful, but as a woman who used to work in software, one phrase I wish some of my male colleagues could have learnt was "how much do you already know about this topic?", to be deployed *before* explaining the entire topic in minute detail. "How much do you need to know about this topic?" is a good one, as well.
