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CIRCLE WITH A DOT

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  3. "There are no more juniors.

"There are no more juniors.

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  • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

    "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

    Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

    Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

    favicon

    (www.stvn.sh)

    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
    wrote last edited by
    #5

    @tante

    April 26 Fortune magazine quoted an Nvidia VP saying that AI costs far more than human workers.

    Ed Zitron reported on the economic realities of the current subscriptions offered by big tech versus the actual cost, found in token usage. The ratio of income to token costs something between five and 12, depending on the subscription charges.

    And this figure doesn’t take into account the debt these companies have to service as well.

    That’s some kind of productivity increase

    felix_eckhardt@det.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
    0
    • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

      "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

      Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

      Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

      favicon

      (www.stvn.sh)

      taschenorakel@mastodon.greenT This user is from outside of this forum
      taschenorakel@mastodon.greenT This user is from outside of this forum
      taschenorakel@mastodon.green
      wrote last edited by
      #6

      @tante Well written.

      1 Reply Last reply
      0
      • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

        "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

        Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

        Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

        favicon

        (www.stvn.sh)

        8r3n7@mstdn.ca8 This user is from outside of this forum
        8r3n7@mstdn.ca8 This user is from outside of this forum
        8r3n7@mstdn.ca
        wrote last edited by
        #7

        @tante Why are managers—self-proclaimed “leaders”—the most vulnerable to group think? Or is it that group-thinkers are the most likely to go into management, with the wrong understanding, and the wrong incentives?

        Meanwhile, the investors—assholes randomly selected from the same pool—are chasing unicorns, but don’t know what one looks like. So they throw mountains of cash at donkeys wearing dunce caps, until one of them shits out a golden bar of digital heroin.

        zimzat@mastodon.socialZ 1 Reply Last reply
        0
        • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

          "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

          Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

          Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

          favicon

          (www.stvn.sh)

          mayintoronto@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
          mayintoronto@beige.partyM This user is from outside of this forum
          mayintoronto@beige.party
          wrote last edited by
          #8

          @tante "The doll catches fire" is a perfect description of the state of product management over the past... 5 years. Maybe longer.

          1 Reply Last reply
          0
          • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

            "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

            Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

            Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

            favicon

            (www.stvn.sh)

            gimulnautti@mastodon.greenG This user is from outside of this forum
            gimulnautti@mastodon.greenG This user is from outside of this forum
            gimulnautti@mastodon.green
            wrote last edited by
            #9

            @tante Yup. AI didn’t kill our jobs. Greed did. The same greed that outsourced everything to china and told us there’s be so much money ”trickling down” we wouldn’t need pensions..

            Just a normal day in a neoliberal fiefdom called ”a democracy”.

            1 Reply Last reply
            0
            • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

              "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

              Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

              Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

              favicon

              (www.stvn.sh)

              dumbotron@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
              dumbotron@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
              dumbotron@mastodon.social
              wrote last edited by
              #10

              @tante Captainpalooza 2025... lol, good story!

              1 Reply Last reply
              0
              • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                favicon

                (www.stvn.sh)

                K This user is from outside of this forum
                K This user is from outside of this forum
                kramaker@social.vivaldi.net
                wrote last edited by
                #11

                @tante Probably the most literate summary of our times I've read. Nice work. Anyone that can wield natural language like this would have been a force with formal language(s) and context-free grammars.
                You might enjoy: https://arxiv.org/abs/2601.05280v2

                I certainly am.

                1 Reply Last reply
                0
                • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                  "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                  Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                  Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                  favicon

                  (www.stvn.sh)

                  tezoatlipoca@mas.toT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tezoatlipoca@mas.toT This user is from outside of this forum
                  tezoatlipoca@mas.to
                  wrote last edited by
                  #12

                  @tante

                  This is fantastic and unfortunately true.

                  I am Sara, tunnelling under Mordor with a USB stick. I have attempted to document the cron job and institutionalize the periodic nudge it needs to run payroll... but then I get yelled at for not videcoding enough new featureslop. There are no juniors for me to explain the cron job too.

                  Perhaps the AI may one dayabsorb the wiki page about the cron job. Hopefully someone else thinks to ask the AI about why payroll didn't run.

                  darwinwoodka@mastodon.socialD 1 Reply Last reply
                  0
                  • 8r3n7@mstdn.ca8 8r3n7@mstdn.ca

                    @tante Why are managers—self-proclaimed “leaders”—the most vulnerable to group think? Or is it that group-thinkers are the most likely to go into management, with the wrong understanding, and the wrong incentives?

                    Meanwhile, the investors—assholes randomly selected from the same pool—are chasing unicorns, but don’t know what one looks like. So they throw mountains of cash at donkeys wearing dunce caps, until one of them shits out a golden bar of digital heroin.

                    zimzat@mastodon.socialZ This user is from outside of this forum
                    zimzat@mastodon.socialZ This user is from outside of this forum
                    zimzat@mastodon.social
                    wrote last edited by
                    #13

                    @8r3n7 @tante

                    Incentives are aligned to the production of incentives. If it's easier to fake work than to actually work then folks are further incentivized to do less for more (or do more for more). It's also easier to ignore a problem than to fix it (in the short-term).

                    I think it's because humanity is already at or past the point of becoming post-scarcity. Part of that is society struggling to let go of the impulses and incentives born from scarcity.

                    1 Reply Last reply
                    0
                    • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                      "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                      Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                      Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                      favicon

                      (www.stvn.sh)

                      kkarhan@c.imK This user is from outside of this forum
                      kkarhan@c.imK This user is from outside of this forum
                      kkarhan@c.im
                      wrote last edited by
                      #14

                      @tante classic #LadderPulling will implode shit.

                      And the then-seniors will be able to charge big time for training their replacements…

                      1 Reply Last reply
                      0
                      • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                        "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                        Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                        Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                        favicon

                        (www.stvn.sh)

                        firepoet@tech.lgbtF This user is from outside of this forum
                        firepoet@tech.lgbtF This user is from outside of this forum
                        firepoet@tech.lgbt
                        wrote last edited by
                        #15

                        @tante So right…

                        1 Reply Last reply
                        0
                        • ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai

                          @tante

                          April 26 Fortune magazine quoted an Nvidia VP saying that AI costs far more than human workers.

                          Ed Zitron reported on the economic realities of the current subscriptions offered by big tech versus the actual cost, found in token usage. The ratio of income to token costs something between five and 12, depending on the subscription charges.

                          And this figure doesn’t take into account the debt these companies have to service as well.

                          That’s some kind of productivity increase

                          felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                          felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                          felix_eckhardt@det.social
                          wrote last edited by
                          #16

                          @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante that is completely correct. But we all know that computational power gets cheaper every year. Question is: will it get profitable soon enough or are AI companies going bankrupt before this happens?

                          stumpythemutt@social.linux.pizzaS ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 2 Replies Last reply
                          0
                          • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                            "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                            Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                            Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                            favicon

                            (www.stvn.sh)

                            stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                            stevendotjs@hachyderm.ioS This user is from outside of this forum
                            stevendotjs@hachyderm.io
                            wrote last edited by
                            #17

                            @tante oh hey I wrote this! Thanks for sharing!

                            linkshaender@bildung.socialL tante@tldr.nettime.orgT joy_intl@mastodon.onlineJ inkomtech@infosec.exchangeI dalehagglund@hachyderm.ioD 5 Replies Last reply
                            0
                            • felix_eckhardt@det.socialF felix_eckhardt@det.social

                              @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante that is completely correct. But we all know that computational power gets cheaper every year. Question is: will it get profitable soon enough or are AI companies going bankrupt before this happens?

                              stumpythemutt@social.linux.pizzaS This user is from outside of this forum
                              stumpythemutt@social.linux.pizzaS This user is from outside of this forum
                              stumpythemutt@social.linux.pizza
                              wrote last edited by
                              #18

                              @felix_eckhardt @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante Or if they'll burn up the countryside and destroy the aquifers with the required datacenters.

                              felix_eckhardt@det.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
                              0
                              • stumpythemutt@social.linux.pizzaS stumpythemutt@social.linux.pizza

                                @felix_eckhardt @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante Or if they'll burn up the countryside and destroy the aquifers with the required datacenters.

                                felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                felix_eckhardt@det.social
                                wrote last edited by
                                #19

                                @StumpyTheMutt @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante its sad, that it does not sound far fetched.

                                1 Reply Last reply
                                0
                                • tante@tldr.nettime.orgT tante@tldr.nettime.org

                                  "There are no more juniors. There was a funeral for their passing in 2024. Nobody came. The machine does what they do now, but cheaper. Of course, juniors weren't valuable for what they produced, they were valuable for who they would become: the senior engineer who knows where the bodies are buried. We optimized for output, and abolished apprenticeship. A few years from now, we'll wonder where all the seniors are. We shot them. Nobody will remember."

                                  Programming Still Sucks. — Writing

                                  Sorry Peter. — I'm at a birthday party, and while most people here also work in tech, there's always a Guy with a Real Job. You know, a physical job, building some or other thing people need. And this Guy always asks some variant of the same question: aren't you worried AI is taking your job? I glance around and see a few faces turning around toward us, rolling their eyes ever so slightly before returning to their previous conversation. Yes, this question again.

                                  favicon

                                  (www.stvn.sh)

                                  felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                  felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                  felix_eckhardt@det.social
                                  wrote last edited by
                                  #20

                                  @tante we might not need any human coder, when no senior is available anymore. It was similar with other professions.

                                  nfoonf@chaos.socialN toriver@mas.toT 2 Replies Last reply
                                  0
                                  • felix_eckhardt@det.socialF felix_eckhardt@det.social

                                    @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante that is completely correct. But we all know that computational power gets cheaper every year. Question is: will it get profitable soon enough or are AI companies going bankrupt before this happens?

                                    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG This user is from outside of this forum
                                    ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai
                                    wrote last edited by
                                    #21

                                    @felix_eckhardt @tante

                                    The systems get more and more expensive. They may be more powerful, but they aren’t getting less expensive. They’re getting more expensive.

                                    Given that the lifetime of the computational units is between one and three years before they burn out or become obsolete, the window of time they must recoup their cost and make a profit is tiny. This isn’t like laying fiber optic that has a 30 year lifetime.

                                    felix_eckhardt@det.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
                                    0
                                    • ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG ghostonthehalfshell@masto.ai

                                      @felix_eckhardt @tante

                                      The systems get more and more expensive. They may be more powerful, but they aren’t getting less expensive. They’re getting more expensive.

                                      Given that the lifetime of the computational units is between one and three years before they burn out or become obsolete, the window of time they must recoup their cost and make a profit is tiny. This isn’t like laying fiber optic that has a 30 year lifetime.

                                      felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                      felix_eckhardt@det.socialF This user is from outside of this forum
                                      felix_eckhardt@det.social
                                      wrote last edited by
                                      #22

                                      @GhostOnTheHalfShell @tante if we look at the last two or three years that might be correct. For the rest of history computational power got cheaper and cheaper. Currently we have a special situation, which will not last forever.

                                      ghostonthehalfshell@masto.aiG 1 Reply Last reply
                                      0
                                      • tezoatlipoca@mas.toT tezoatlipoca@mas.to

                                        @tante

                                        This is fantastic and unfortunately true.

                                        I am Sara, tunnelling under Mordor with a USB stick. I have attempted to document the cron job and institutionalize the periodic nudge it needs to run payroll... but then I get yelled at for not videcoding enough new featureslop. There are no juniors for me to explain the cron job too.

                                        Perhaps the AI may one dayabsorb the wiki page about the cron job. Hopefully someone else thinks to ask the AI about why payroll didn't run.

                                        darwinwoodka@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        darwinwoodka@mastodon.socialD This user is from outside of this forum
                                        darwinwoodka@mastodon.social
                                        wrote last edited by
                                        #23

                                        @tezoatlipoca @tante

                                        There are no more spoons, we sold them all to pay for the AI

                                        1 Reply Last reply
                                        0
                                        • felix_eckhardt@det.socialF felix_eckhardt@det.social

                                          @tante we might not need any human coder, when no senior is available anymore. It was similar with other professions.

                                          nfoonf@chaos.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          nfoonf@chaos.socialN This user is from outside of this forum
                                          nfoonf@chaos.social
                                          wrote last edited by
                                          #24

                                          @felix_eckhardt @tante this is the same like saying there is no difference between a taylormade suit and 2$ underpants made by slave labor in Bangladesh.

                                          felix_eckhardt@det.socialF 1 Reply Last reply
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