This is the key difference:
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@LukefromDC we have to remember that whatever corruption that Trump has installed, it pales in comparison to what Orban was able to do in 16 continuous years in power. Even with all the levers of power in his grasp, he still couldn't turn back a tidal wave.
Orban was the prototype Western authoritarian. Trump's the Temo version. Of course, Russia's got a hand in all of this too, but they seem to be having some problems of their own lately.
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@randahl you assume citizens can vote peacefully instead of ICE collecting anyone of color or just about anyone in democrat districts.
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@mxchara @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl That would involve limiting freedom of speech/expression, as there is no other way to stop people from promoting themselves in the general sphere, and it could introduce new problems by, say, defining a campaign as any promotion undertaken by a declared candidate - but surely a currently elected official or someone considering running might also be campaigning without yet being on the ballot?
@WhiteCatTamer @benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl ugh. it's difficult to argue against the free-speech angle: compartmentalizing elections and party politics seems like a non-starter
could maybe...ONE thing be standardized at least, and that's the season? would it be possible at least to say something like "the campaign season is exactly one month long" or something that isn't practically round the clock the way it seems now? would a time-dependent restriction on political speech be legit
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@sasanb @randahl Have you looked at Magyar? That's one more aspect where Hungarians are more pragmatic (and honestly smarter) than Americans, and understand what are the viable options on the table, and that you can't let the perfect be the enemy of "not catastrophic".
The correct choice in the US is to elect the spineless democrat to make sure you are still allowed to do opposition, and then start preparing an effective opposition on day 0. -
This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl The problem is, the GOP is actively trying to reduce the voter pool.
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@randahl This is why republicans are so heavily invested in voter supression strategies. They know this is true, so they want to make it as difficult as possible for people to do, to discourage people from doing it, and it works.
@maccruiskeen @randahl Magyar had very little access to Hungarian media, the overwhelming majority of which is owned either by the state or by Fidesz oligarchs. Tisza leaders and supporters faced personal obstacles as well. A Tisza politician said his wife lost her job and friends stay away after he announced his support for Magyar. Tisza’s database was hacked and posted online, to encourage harassment of party members. 3 weeks ago, many Budapest Tisza leaders would speak only off the record.
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nah turn out is the most important thing
i used to be against compulsory voting. i thought "you can't force people to care"
but now i'm for it
because just getting some of these lazy assholes in the voting booth should be enough
sure some will draw dicks on their ballots but the results are close enough that just a few percentage points of nonvoters begrudgingly finally making a choice is enough to make the difference
@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl I spent 3 hours yesterday doing my US taxes, because of our baroque and convoluted tax code. I spent roughly the same amount of time in November researching the bewildering number of California and San Francisco ballot measures and down-ballot candidates, often with deliberately misleading titles. And that's despite helpful voting guides doing the research legwork.
Throwing unmotivated low-information voters at elections by compulsory voting, essentially random number generators influenced by political advertising only the powers-that-be can afford, is not a prescription for good outcomes.
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl
So we can have Trump replaced with a different racist far-right populist, just like they got in Hungary?
It's a massive relief for the rest of Europe that they got rid of their traitorous Putinbot, but we need better Democratic candidates and meaningful democratic protections. -
@randahl That would be a great tagline for: a t-shirt, a sign, a bumper sticker/carmagnet
BE LIKE THE HUNGARIANS
@SharonCrockett @randahl Honestly, don't
We have such a great tendency to be on the wrong side of history. -
This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl
Hungarians had an alternative.In the US, democrats were dead set on losing, and people who were clear that Biden had to go were told to not vote third party. Which in a two party system was the same as telling them to vote Trump.
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
@randahl it seems the equivalent would be Trump losing against Vance
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This is the key difference:
In 2024, only 63 percent of US voters voted, and Trump became president.
Sunday, 80 percent of Hungarian voters turned out to vote, and Orbán was removed.
Be like the Hungarians.
Hopefully we can get someone passed the primary in 2028 who won't deliberately suppress their own voter base.
It's definitely about turn out, and the practical reality is people won't turn out for more of the lesser evil type candidates. I really hope neoliberals understand that this time around or else they'll lose us this election again.
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@SharonCrockett @randahl Honestly, don't
We have such a great tendency to be on the wrong side of history. -
@benroyce @GoSeiGer @randahl I spent 3 hours yesterday doing my US taxes, because of our baroque and convoluted tax code. I spent roughly the same amount of time in November researching the bewildering number of California and San Francisco ballot measures and down-ballot candidates, often with deliberately misleading titles. And that's despite helpful voting guides doing the research legwork.
Throwing unmotivated low-information voters at elections by compulsory voting, essentially random number generators influenced by political advertising only the powers-that-be can afford, is not a prescription for good outcomes.
@fazalmajid @benroyce @randahl
I live in the Netherlands. If I didn't have my own small company, it would take me a visit to the government tax website, a run through everything they already know about me (just to check) and a press on the button: maybe 15 minutes. And usually I get money back.
My company takes more time, but that is my own choice. -
@randahl
So we can have Trump replaced with a different racist far-right populist, just like they got in Hungary?
It's a massive relief for the rest of Europe that they got rid of their traitorous Putinbot, but we need better Democratic candidates and meaningful democratic protections.We don't need better Democrats, we need smarter voters.
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@sasanb @randahl Have you looked at Magyar? That's one more aspect where Hungarians are more pragmatic (and honestly smarter) than Americans, and understand what are the viable options on the table, and that you can't let the perfect be the enemy of "not catastrophic".
The correct choice in the US is to elect the spineless democrat to make sure you are still allowed to do opposition, and then start preparing an effective opposition on day 0.These people are in a leftist cult, just as brainwashed as MAGA. They will sit there and tell you to your face that one of the most liberal senators in Congress was identical to Trump. They have no connection with reality, and Bernie has played a significant part in their indoctrination.
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We don't need better Democrats, we need smarter voters.
@HakeemG @randahl
You really are just a shill for the Democratic Party centrists. It literally can't get anymore disconnected than "we're perfect, but the voters need to learn to care about what we tell them to."Kamala Harris & co haven't gotten any better. You're just doubling down on it being sufficient that their GOP opposition has gotten worse.
What an incredibly defeatist, destructive, and disgusting approach to politics and governance.
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@HakeemG @randahl
You really are just a shill for the Democratic Party centrists. It literally can't get anymore disconnected than "we're perfect, but the voters need to learn to care about what we tell them to."Kamala Harris & co haven't gotten any better. You're just doubling down on it being sufficient that their GOP opposition has gotten worse.
What an incredibly defeatist, destructive, and disgusting approach to politics and governance.
I didn't say the Democrats were perfect, far from it, but voters electing Trump TWICE are F'ing morons, and if you don't know that I've got bad news for you.
