"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
-
Bad actors will always try to hijack "diversity" to force us to accept actual enemies into our camp.
"AI", as it exists now, is a tool of our enemies: they use it to enshrine bias into employment processes so it no longer requires a bigoted human in the loop. They use AI to devalue the work of writers, researchers, coders, artists & more. They use AI to automate decisions of who should be bombed, who should starve, & who should be erased/ignored/& excluded.
@artemis This has nothing to do with what you're actually saying, but my stupid brain chose Tommy Wiseau as a stand-in for a "bad actor", and just thinking of how poorly he'd try to do what you're saying made me chuckle.
-
"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
I’m sure there are echo chambers. But in my experience, the “echo chamber” in my feed on mastodon is what we used to call “consensus reality” back when facts beat vibes.
-
@artemis It's telling, to me, that these people view someone not wanting to interact with them as a consequence of their behaviour the same as not wanting to interact with someone due to skin tone.
To my cynical and generally people-hating brain it strikes me as the mindset of someone who thinks skin tone is somehow related to morality/rightness.
(idk maybe I'm reaching, and I'm not explaining it well, but my brain sees the line from AI-shills bitching about tolerance to white supremacy)
@MsHearthWitch @artemis and it's not even the same behavior they're comparing either. Black people on fedi aren't just being ignored--if that was the whole problem there wouldn't be TBS because the racists would do the job of maintaining blocks. AI shills are comparing "people didn't widely boost my post and follow me because they have moral objections to what I'm doing" to "people sent me death threats until I had to delete my account/instance for safety, because I'm Black"
-
It's interesting how important it is to some people that you supposedly shouldn't be choosey about who you associate with.
The person I saw talking about this framed the "problem" of AI-shills being "unwelcome" on Fedi (not sure I buy that either—they seem to have their own corners of Fedi) as the same thing as Black users being harassed/unsafe/not included, which is just absurd.
It's very "blue lives matter" coded, ya know? Like, being a techbro is not an inherent part of who you are.
@artemis I hope this isn't about me, but on the hunch that it is, it means I was not conveying at all what I meant. I don't think they're remotely the same, and if that's what came across, I'm pretty horrified.
Your point about consent is much better. I need to work on not accepting the framing I'm handed.
-
If you're complaining that the kind of behavior that is widely seen as extremely antisocial is unwelcome in many people's "social media" experience, maybe Fedi isn't for you.
I don't think you want a social media platform that is constructed around choice, because I see you out here really upset that people are making the choice that they don't want AI in their lives.
@artemis I would argue that "AI" is a fundamentally anti-human technology.
They stole literally every piece of text and audio and video on the internet that *people* created, without consent or compensation, and used it to create machine that replace humans.And therefore, I do not have *any* respect for people promoting or using it. Not even the basic respect that every human deserves, because they are actively promoting the replacement of humans with machines.
They are enemies of mankind.
-
"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
@artemis 110% spot on.
-
@artemis I would argue that "AI" is a fundamentally anti-human technology.
They stole literally every piece of text and audio and video on the internet that *people* created, without consent or compensation, and used it to create machine that replace humans.And therefore, I do not have *any* respect for people promoting or using it. Not even the basic respect that every human deserves, because they are actively promoting the replacement of humans with machines.
They are enemies of mankind.
-
@artemis I would argue that "AI" is a fundamentally anti-human technology.
They stole literally every piece of text and audio and video on the internet that *people* created, without consent or compensation, and used it to create machine that replace humans.And therefore, I do not have *any* respect for people promoting or using it. Not even the basic respect that every human deserves, because they are actively promoting the replacement of humans with machines.
They are enemies of mankind.
-
"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
@artemis Thank you for this whole thread; you've managed to articulate my feelings on the "echo chamber" post better than I could.
-
R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
-
Calling us bigots for not welcoming enemy propagandists is fucking rich.
so the "main character" is rehashing the same old tired fucking liberal centrist big-brained argument with the usual side of DARVO.
i'm so fucking tired of these people. can we build something yet? i'm so fucking tired.
-
"Is Mastodon becoming an echo chamber?"
I dunno. What even is 'Mastodon' in this conversation?
I'm on dice.camp because I like their moderation & federation decisions. If you're on a different instance, how "echo-y" your "echo chamber" is may vary.
But if you don't like it when people are picky about who they associate with & how, just go hang out on mastodon.social or whatever.
@artemis Sometimes I wish it could be a bit more lively...to be honest, it took me a while to stop missing all the knee-jerk contention from near strangers after dealing with that for literal years(Probably a decade if you count my time on Daily Kos and stuff like that.) It seems like there is too fine a line though from "Occasional passionate debate" to "Listening to nutbags always" so I guess I'll deal with my own thoughts, even when I don't love them...
-
@artemis Thank you for this whole thread; you've managed to articulate my feelings on the "echo chamber" post better than I could.
@dubious_dragon @artemis I am happier to be writing stuff again and all of that, but I also think there's another myth there--that I wish I could b a party to-- that food tastes better and I'm never angry at people I don't know anymore and hearing my own voice fills me with such love that I don't hate my neighbor's right-wing t-shirts...It's not THAT great.
-
@artemis It's telling, to me, that these people view someone not wanting to interact with them as a consequence of their behaviour the same as not wanting to interact with someone due to skin tone.
To my cynical and generally people-hating brain it strikes me as the mindset of someone who thinks skin tone is somehow related to morality/rightness.
(idk maybe I'm reaching, and I'm not explaining it well, but my brain sees the line from AI-shills bitching about tolerance to white supremacy)
@MsHearthWitch @artemis you're right, it isn't much of a stretch. Which makes it all the more irony-rich that in order to try to make their argument more palatable they threw in "obviously we should defed from nazis, of course" when the foundation of the ai industry is absolutely chock full of fascists, ones with global reach like Musk and Thiel, and the ai tools promote fascist ideas and goals by their nature.
-
They have to frame it as a diversity issue because they want to distract from the fact that it is a *consent* issue!
Not wanting to associate with Black people is bigotry, but not wanting to associate with AI-shills is just protecting your peace. These are not the goddamn same, & it's really sinister asking people to pretend they are.
It is weird to insist people should HAVE to interact with you, regardless of your behavior. It shows a lack of respect for people's agency & choice.
Please check out https://stopgenai.com
-
Calling us bigots for not welcoming enemy propagandists is fucking rich.
@artemis I didn't follow whatever triggered the current echo chamber discussion, but recently somebody asked for a good instance for a (vulnerable) friend, and some reply guy had to go and tell them he believes we shouldn't create spaces that explicitly protect others from people like him. >_<;
-
@artemis I would argue that "AI" is a fundamentally anti-human technology.
They stole literally every piece of text and audio and video on the internet that *people* created, without consent or compensation, and used it to create machine that replace humans.And therefore, I do not have *any* respect for people promoting or using it. Not even the basic respect that every human deserves, because they are actively promoting the replacement of humans with machines.
They are enemies of mankind.
"And therefore, I do not have *any* respect for people promoting or using it. Not even the basic respect that every human deserves"
Would agree with your toot but not these cc'ed sentences, which I'd rephrase to sth like this:
"I do not have *any* respect for the *persons* promoting or using it and have deep contempt for them. I only respect them as human beings in the sense I won't actively physically harm them."
-
They have to frame it as a diversity issue because they want to distract from the fact that it is a *consent* issue!
Not wanting to associate with Black people is bigotry, but not wanting to associate with AI-shills is just protecting your peace. These are not the goddamn same, & it's really sinister asking people to pretend they are.
It is weird to insist people should HAVE to interact with you, regardless of your behavior. It shows a lack of respect for people's agency & choice.
I'm no expert on any of this but I'm thinking about
1. What's the difference between a real-life cafe that doesn't welcome brown people, marxists, women, muslim people .... and a mastodon instance that doesn't?
Is an instance more like someone's home, and so they have control over who can enter?
2. Are instances "public spaces" or "public squares" with the associated rights that we have and don't have eg privacy, as well as obligations not to hurt others?
-
"And therefore, I do not have *any* respect for people promoting or using it. Not even the basic respect that every human deserves"
Would agree with your toot but not these cc'ed sentences, which I'd rephrase to sth like this:
"I do not have *any* respect for the *persons* promoting or using it and have deep contempt for them. I only respect them as human beings in the sense I won't actively physically harm them."
@proscience @artemis I understand your disagreement on this point.
And I'm fine to agree to disagree in that part.But with all the damage I have seen already, I see people using and promoting AI on the same level as an alien invasion force trying to enslave or erase mankind.
They are destroying not only the environment, but eroding our very sense of reality itself. We have already reached the point where you can't believe anything anymore. The very foundation of society has been destroyed
-
@proscience @artemis I understand your disagreement on this point.
And I'm fine to agree to disagree in that part.But with all the damage I have seen already, I see people using and promoting AI on the same level as an alien invasion force trying to enslave or erase mankind.
They are destroying not only the environment, but eroding our very sense of reality itself. We have already reached the point where you can't believe anything anymore. The very foundation of society has been destroyed
Although I grant them a tad more human rights, I entirely subscribe to the many drastically negative consequences you listed. I'd further distinguish the originators like Thiel, Karp and their fascistic ilk, the many fascistic donors of their pursuit and the many fascistic politicians eager to deliver for them from those many customers who're too naive (and/or ignorant) to see through.
-
Although I grant them a tad more human rights, I entirely subscribe to the many drastically negative consequences you listed. I'd further distinguish the originators like Thiel, Karp and their fascistic ilk, the many fascistic donors of their pursuit and the many fascistic politicians eager to deliver for them from those many customers who're too naive (and/or ignorant) to see through.
@proscience @artemis I would like to add one point: being a user/proponent of AI isn't a life sentence. They can choose to stop destroying mankind and the world at any time.
And I don't think they are all beyond redemption.
Maybe that clarification makes my stance a bit more palatable.
