How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:
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@Crissa @dave I limit reply visibility to followers only or mentioned only a lot when it's something that I don't want to show up on random stranger's timelines. Sometimes it's to reduce the amount of replyguys. Sometimes it's sorta personal stuff (not to the level of "move to Signal" but still not the sort of thing everyone needs to read)
@JessTheUnstill @Crissa @dave I do it for call-ins. There are a lot of marginalized people in my circles, but we all make mistakes and every once in a while let slip an unexamined bias. So when one of my peers says something harmful, I'm likely to call them on it in a followers only post, because I don't want to leave it unaddressed but also really don't want to cause a dogpile. So it's a tool that's used both for preventing harassment and for harassment
I'm not sure how to resolve that -
@dalias@hachyderm.io @dave@alvarado.social
Thanks for the education! So it does sound like that might be a solution... -
@dave couldn't the post be signed including the security options? Then editing them would cause a bad sig and get it dropped?
@stuartyeates @dave It could, but that would be a whole new protocol. ActivityPubS
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How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:
1. Harasser replies to their target's post, with the reply set to "followers only", saying the most vile stuff you can imagine.
2. All the harasser's followers join in on the harassment, posting more vile stuff.
3. Nobody but the target and the harassment crew can see the vile stuff that was said.
4. Target is traumatized. Nobody else can see why.
5. Everybody says "I don't see it so it's not happening."
@dave I think we need to change the way 'followers only' works, perhaps the target has to be a follower of the harasser for it to work?
Or maybe the followers only option is disabled by default on all posts?
Or, and I rather like this, the target never sees the post, after all they are not a follower
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How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:
1. Harasser replies to their target's post, with the reply set to "followers only", saying the most vile stuff you can imagine.
2. All the harasser's followers join in on the harassment, posting more vile stuff.
3. Nobody but the target and the harassment crew can see the vile stuff that was said.
4. Target is traumatized. Nobody else can see why.
5. Everybody says "I don't see it so it's not happening."
@dave I don't think sharing receipts is super necessary. It just smears the shit, so to speak.
And like, I've gotten this kind of harassment. usually on my pinned wedding photo because if one of my posts gets shared into an asshole instance, all the pinned posts come with it.
I report it to my admin, and she mashes the block/defederate button and takes care of it.
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How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:
1. Harasser replies to their target's post, with the reply set to "followers only", saying the most vile stuff you can imagine.
2. All the harasser's followers join in on the harassment, posting more vile stuff.
3. Nobody but the target and the harassment crew can see the vile stuff that was said.
4. Target is traumatized. Nobody else can see why.
5. Everybody says "I don't see it so it's not happening."
@dave @skinnylatte that explains a lot
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@dave Would it be possible to add a way to ban "followers only replies"? As a toggle in user preferences, or something, anyone know?
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@shlee @dave @StingrayBadger
That would make a lot of sense, don't know who's in a position to work towards making it happen. -
How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:
1. Harasser replies to their target's post, with the reply set to "followers only", saying the most vile stuff you can imagine.
2. All the harasser's followers join in on the harassment, posting more vile stuff.
3. Nobody but the target and the harassment crew can see the vile stuff that was said.
4. Target is traumatized. Nobody else can see why.
5. Everybody says "I don't see it so it's not happening."
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How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:
1. Harasser replies to their target's post, with the reply set to "followers only", saying the most vile stuff you can imagine.
2. All the harasser's followers join in on the harassment, posting more vile stuff.
3. Nobody but the target and the harassment crew can see the vile stuff that was said.
4. Target is traumatized. Nobody else can see why.
5. Everybody says "I don't see it so it's not happening."
@dave While I am aware thay technology cannot solve social issues, it seems to me that it would be a fairly simple thing to code in a "harassment" feature that once triggered by the victim, exposes the entire thread publicly. Then the abusers couldn't hide behind the audience settings in order to victimize people. I know this puts the work on the victim, but it's a better solution than forcing them to screenshot the whole thing and publish it.
Idk. A thought.
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@dave I think we need to change the way 'followers only' works, perhaps the target has to be a follower of the harasser for it to work?
Or maybe the followers only option is disabled by default on all posts?
Or, and I rather like this, the target never sees the post, after all they are not a follower -
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@dave Is there a shit mastodon says account yet? Maybe people could anonymously shame the harassers by messaging screenshots and posting them that way.
@semitones @dave the harassers know where the Screenshots come from. They were part of the "interaction".
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How (racist/sexist/whatever) harassment on Mastodon works:
1. Harasser replies to their target's post, with the reply set to "followers only", saying the most vile stuff you can imagine.
2. All the harasser's followers join in on the harassment, posting more vile stuff.
3. Nobody but the target and the harassment crew can see the vile stuff that was said.
4. Target is traumatized. Nobody else can see why.
5. Everybody says "I don't see it so it's not happening."
@dave bonus points when the victim is blocked and not able to report report said harrassment…
- They can even prevent admins from seeing the posts in question
- This is a serious issue that #Mastodin developers refuse to address, alongside the unwillingness to address basic features that every other internet-facing application has, like blocklist feed support…
- They can even prevent admins from seeing the posts in question
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R relay@relay.infosec.exchange shared this topic
