With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
@_elena there's also no need for SSO (Single Sign-On) to mean “single identity” —as long as YOU are the one that controls the sign-on. See e.g. the Nomad protocol:
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
Imho they are strengths, for sure. The spec shortcomings, protocol decay, and chaotic commons' inability to address them weigh up to a certain amount of resilience in the ecosystem that manages to grow *despite* these drawbacks. And also #ATProto simply by being better specified, documented, and accessible to implementers, has led to such uptake of the de facto standard, that it has become a lightning rod for the kinds of commercial attention we rather avoid for the fediverse (generally speaking).
However, we can do better than chaotic commons, and foster chaordic organization around ecoysystem formation, such that one day we can say that #ActivityPub is truly "commons based", i.e. people are in control, by the people for the people, and able to sustainably evolve and grow naturally.
Chaordic organization is quite fascinating, and it aligns to the social dynamics that are at play on the fediverse between people..
How We Reimagine the Social Web
We find novel ways to collaborate and create value together.
Social coding commons (coding.social)
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
> Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
This is where I disagree with the majority of current Fediverse.
> But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you?
Not really, no. Any sufficiently motivated entity can easily track internet activity, having different identities for different services does not really stop them.
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
@_elena Like I mentioned earlier, Bluesky is the CDMA of social media protocols.
Mastodon and the Fediverse is GSM: truly open, owned by nobody. You are not a prisoner to nobody.
Bluesky is "open" (note the quotes) but you are a prisoner to Bluesky Social the way with CDMA you were a prisoner to Qualcomm.
GSM evolved all the way to 5G and will reach 6G. CDMA only evolved to 3G for the aforementioned reason.
I wouldn't be surprised if "Bluesky" is forced to embrace Fedi when ATProro is EOL. -
R relay@relay.an.exchange shared this topic
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
@_elena The perceived weaknesses about the inter-connectivity is definitely strengths.
Fx. it's much harder for bots to infect your timeline and get reach on here. So it's less attractive to set them up.
I have no doubt that VCs are interested in keeping Bsky up for easy training fooder through the pipeline.
I wrote something similar 2 months ago on Bsky.
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
In September of 2025, under pressure to show they are really 'decentralized' and to great fanfare #Bluesky announced they were spinning out the "one centralized component" of their network to a new fully independent Switzerland based organization.
Creating an Independent Public Ledger of Credentials (PLC) Directory Organization
Creating an Independent Public Ledger of Credentials (PLC) Directory Organization | Bluesky
The Bluesky Social app is built on an open network protocol that refers to each user by a unique Decentralized Identifier, or DID (a W3C standard). The most popular supported DID method was developed in-house by Bluesky Social, and is called "Public Ledger of Credentials", or PLC. The PLC identity system currently relies on a global directory service to distribute identity updates, and that directory service has been operated by Bluesky as well.
(docs.bsky.app)
Since then crickets. No information on progress. Structure? Funding? Ownership? Who will it employ? Will the financials be public?
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In September of 2025, under pressure to show they are really 'decentralized' and to great fanfare #Bluesky announced they were spinning out the "one centralized component" of their network to a new fully independent Switzerland based organization.
Creating an Independent Public Ledger of Credentials (PLC) Directory Organization
Creating an Independent Public Ledger of Credentials (PLC) Directory Organization | Bluesky
The Bluesky Social app is built on an open network protocol that refers to each user by a unique Decentralized Identifier, or DID (a W3C standard). The most popular supported DID method was developed in-house by Bluesky Social, and is called "Public Ledger of Credentials", or PLC. The PLC identity system currently relies on a global directory service to distribute identity updates, and that directory service has been operated by Bluesky as well.
(docs.bsky.app)
Since then crickets. No information on progress. Structure? Funding? Ownership? Who will it employ? Will the financials be public?
A little background here. This PLC directory is like the 'phone book' for AT Protocol, that enables this much ballyhooed ability to have a single name/address across all instances and apps. Whoever holds the4 phone book has total control over the network. Currently that is Bluesky PBC and their VC owners, but they have said they are relinquishing that to this new Swiss organization.
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
@_elena Crypto VC's are attracted to it because it actually provides some excuse for their product to exist. The blockchain has some interesting properties that make it a reasonable answer here.
And yeah, the point is actually to build a profile. It wouldn't just be something that is made from the different sites you visit without your knowledge. You'd build it yourself. All your accounts linked up and people can see that.
I like the idea but want compartmentalization.
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A little background here. This PLC directory is like the 'phone book' for AT Protocol, that enables this much ballyhooed ability to have a single name/address across all instances and apps. Whoever holds the4 phone book has total control over the network. Currently that is Bluesky PBC and their VC owners, but they have said they are relinquishing that to this new Swiss organization.
@mastodonmigration @_elena As I've been saying for a few years: until ownership and governance are transferred to a structure under community control, it's not just a "billionaires' platform", it's a "billionaires' protocol."
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
@_elena The profiling angle of SSO aside, I would love to see something like OpenID adopted in the Fediverse, so I could maintain my own OpenID presence/profile on my personal domain and login anywhere with it.
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@_elena The profiling angle of SSO aside, I would love to see something like OpenID adopted in the Fediverse, so I could maintain my own OpenID presence/profile on my personal domain and login anywhere with it.
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
@_elena The same goes for account portability. One of the advantages for data harvesters is that it allows them to connect data points even when a person relocates to a different service. Presumably, this is one of the possibilities that attracted Dorsey to the "protocols not platforms" idea in the first place. When your business is trafficking in user data, the problem with platforms is that people sometimes leave them, which makes them harder to track. But if their new destination is on a protocol that routes their data to your server…
Most of the identity-related features of Bluesky double as data-tracking features.
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With the news of the secret $100 million investment in Bluesky by Bain, I keep thinking about protocols.
Maybe the perceived "drawbacks" of #ActivityPub are ultimately strengths?
#ATproto handles identity in a way that allows a single sign-in across apps. But wouldn't this make it easier to profile you? Is this why crypto VCs are so attracted to it?
And ATproto has funding in the 100s of millions by VCs but at some point they'll want to turn a profit. There is ZERO pressure here to ensh*tt*fy
@_elena I keep asking for this "decentralized" protocol to help me move off of all infrastructure controlled by the Bluesky corporation, and I keep getting the answer "well…so…uh…actually…"
Unfortunately I'm not waiting around for the "exit from evil billionaire control" scenario Jay Graber talked about a year ago or whatever, because that's already happened. So if I can't use ATProto without Bluesky, I guess I won't use ATProto.
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@_elena I keep asking for this "decentralized" protocol to help me move off of all infrastructure controlled by the Bluesky corporation, and I keep getting the answer "well…so…uh…actually…"
Unfortunately I'm not waiting around for the "exit from evil billionaire control" scenario Jay Graber talked about a year ago or whatever, because that's already happened. So if I can't use ATProto without Bluesky, I guess I won't use ATProto.
️@jaredwhite I noticed your posts Jared… and I was following with curiosity the replies. It doesn’t look good.
What worries me is that here in Europe advocacy for the open social web groups the two protocols together (ATProto and ActivityPub).
Also: European politicians and media organizations are gravitating towards Bluesky / ATproto and mostly ignoring the Fediverse…
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@jaredwhite I noticed your posts Jared… and I was following with curiosity the replies. It doesn’t look good.
What worries me is that here in Europe advocacy for the open social web groups the two protocols together (ATProto and ActivityPub).
Also: European politicians and media organizations are gravitating towards Bluesky / ATproto and mostly ignoring the Fediverse…
@_elena Well…I would say it's "complicated".
I could envision a world where every major country or socioeconomic region has its own ATProto-based social network, because they have the resources to run that kind of infrastructure at scale. Not saying I like the idea, but that seems to be how ATProto was structured. Several *large enterprises* could run services which interoperate.
That's quite different from ActivityPub where you can run a decent social networking instance off a Raspberry Pi.
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@_elena Well…I would say it's "complicated".
I could envision a world where every major country or socioeconomic region has its own ATProto-based social network, because they have the resources to run that kind of infrastructure at scale. Not saying I like the idea, but that seems to be how ATProto was structured. Several *large enterprises* could run services which interoperate.
That's quite different from ActivityPub where you can run a decent social networking instance off a Raspberry Pi.
@_elena So yes, ultimately I agree with you. Lumping ATP & AP into one big ball of yarn labeled "open social web" seems fairly ludicrious to me. The goals are so wildly different, I fear it's more harmful than helpful to attempt unifying these separate approaches.
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@_elena I keep asking for this "decentralized" protocol to help me move off of all infrastructure controlled by the Bluesky corporation, and I keep getting the answer "well…so…uh…actually…"
Unfortunately I'm not waiting around for the "exit from evil billionaire control" scenario Jay Graber talked about a year ago or whatever, because that's already happened. So if I can't use ATProto without Bluesky, I guess I won't use ATProto.
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Kuba Suder • @mackuba.eu on 🦋 (@mackuba@martianbase.net)
Attached: 1 image We now have a 10k+ community (likely more if you count lurkers) that could possibly survive by themselves if #Bluesky PBC was suddenly bought by Elon Trumpenberg and shut down #atproto
Martian Base (martianbase.net)
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Kuba Suder • @mackuba.eu on 🦋 (@mackuba@martianbase.net)
Attached: 1 image We now have a 10k+ community (likely more if you count lurkers) that could possibly survive by themselves if #Bluesky PBC was suddenly bought by Elon Trumpenberg and shut down #atproto
Martian Base (martianbase.net)
@everton137 @mackuba Yeah, lots of folks are talking about how to migrate to a third-party PDS host, which is all fine and dandy but I'd still be reliant on Bluesky's infrastructure even if my own personal data is hosted elsewhere…which to me is not very compelling. I'm an all or nothing sorta guy…either I trust Bluesky enough that they can host all my stuff, or…I don’t trust them at all.
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@_elena So yes, ultimately I agree with you. Lumping ATP & AP into one big ball of yarn labeled "open social web" seems fairly ludicrious to me. The goals are so wildly different, I fear it's more harmful than helpful to attempt unifying these separate approaches.
@jaredwhite totally. BTW did you get an answer to your question yesterday?
I also wonder if there are ATProto equivalents to Phanpy or masto-fe... you know, web clients that allow you to log in with your credentials instead of going to bsky.app
