New from me: Fediverse Report #158 - What is Mastodon for?
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New from me: Fediverse Report #158 - What is Mastodon for?
On the recent discourse about the Mastodon becoming an echo chamber and the community's anti-ai sentiment, and how the fundamental tension in that @Mastodon allows for people to create communities and 'place' on the instance level, but people experience community and culture on the federation level
FR#158 – What is Mastodon for?
On AI and place, and how Mastodon gives tools to create communities at the instance level, but people experience 'place' at the federation level.
connectedplaces.online (connectedplaces.online)
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> @jaz@toot.wales said in New from me: Fediverse Report #158 - What is Mastodon for?:
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> It seems holistic and representative of "the Mastodon community" because it happened in /our/ Fediverse, but does it truly reflect a community value?Yes, because "our" fediverse bleeds through to every one of the other million fediverses, Jaz. That's Laurens' point, I think.
What we need, and what I think you already identified with the Twit (shoot, Tŵt) app are very strong local presence. The local feed should be front and center, with fediverse-wide interactions coming to the forefront only when things escape the local bubble and go viral. A lot of that is UI. Mastodon's UI deliberately blurs the local/federated bubbles in order to chase that "public town square" feel.
It's hard to find the right balance, and as someone who like to think tech can provide the answers, I fear the answer might be that the balance is different for every single community; no one UX can correctly be applied.
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New from me: Fediverse Report #158 - What is Mastodon for?
On the recent discourse about the Mastodon becoming an echo chamber and the community's anti-ai sentiment, and how the fundamental tension in that @Mastodon allows for people to create communities and 'place' on the instance level, but people experience community and culture on the federation level
FR#158 – What is Mastodon for?
On AI and place, and how Mastodon gives tools to create communities at the instance level, but people experience 'place' at the federation level.
connectedplaces.online (connectedplaces.online)
@fediversereport @Mastodon
Boundaries are porous to be sure, but I suspect language differences create perceptibly distinct communities on Mastodon. Considering the Fediverse more broadly, language and application are probably important divisions. -
@jaz @fediversereport @Mastodon I don't think I've ever looked at the federated timeline on my instance. (I have on one other instance, sfba.social.)
Fundamentally the UI doesn't encourage it, doesn't foreground it, etc. Genuinely love that you're experimenting with doing that, and if sfba.social followed a similar lead I'd instance-hop in a second.
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New from me: Fediverse Report #158 - What is Mastodon for?
On the recent discourse about the Mastodon becoming an echo chamber and the community's anti-ai sentiment, and how the fundamental tension in that @Mastodon allows for people to create communities and 'place' on the instance level, but people experience community and culture on the federation level
FR#158 – What is Mastodon for?
On AI and place, and how Mastodon gives tools to create communities at the instance level, but people experience 'place' at the federation level.
connectedplaces.online (connectedplaces.online)
Not really sure what this is saying. Stipulated that most people experience the Fedi as one big interconnected social network. That's what it is. And the fact that the prevailing attitude is a fair degree of hostility to AI, mirrors what most of the general population thinks about AI. The fact that an ungoverned and ungovernable network reflects the general consensus does not seem to be a problem that needs solving.
1/
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New from me: Fediverse Report #158 - What is Mastodon for?
On the recent discourse about the Mastodon becoming an echo chamber and the community's anti-ai sentiment, and how the fundamental tension in that @Mastodon allows for people to create communities and 'place' on the instance level, but people experience community and culture on the federation level
FR#158 – What is Mastodon for?
On AI and place, and how Mastodon gives tools to create communities at the instance level, but people experience 'place' at the federation level.
connectedplaces.online (connectedplaces.online)
@Mastodon@mastodon.social
I find that I experience culture and community in 'meat space.' Online is mostly for entertainment or escape. I get away from the meat space goblins to fight with the virtual trolls and gremlins. YMMV.
In meat space you can verify that the person is real and not a sock puppet. Usually.
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Not really sure what this is saying. Stipulated that most people experience the Fedi as one big interconnected social network. That's what it is. And the fact that the prevailing attitude is a fair degree of hostility to AI, mirrors what most of the general population thinks about AI. The fact that an ungoverned and ungovernable network reflects the general consensus does not seem to be a problem that needs solving.
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If the point is that 'hostility' is a bad way for the general concensus to be hammered out. Completely agree with that. The discourse in the Jenson thread got very heated, and it would be much better if we were better able to disagree without being disagreeable. Actually find that well reasoned and fact based arguments much more persuasive than invective or ad hominem, and think those who go down that road only hurt their case.
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If the point is that 'hostility' is a bad way for the general concensus to be hammered out. Completely agree with that. The discourse in the Jenson thread got very heated, and it would be much better if we were better able to disagree without being disagreeable. Actually find that well reasoned and fact based arguments much more persuasive than invective or ad hominem, and think those who go down that road only hurt their case.
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But, the way to temper that kind of rhetoric is really the same as any other matter, through consensus. Conversations just like this. Your paper, raising concerns for the community and respectful discourse about them.
That said, people care about this stuff, and sometimes their opinions are expressed with stong feelings. That's the way people are.
To be clear, not talking about racism or abuse of others that violate instance rules.
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Not really sure what this is saying. Stipulated that most people experience the Fedi as one big interconnected social network. That's what it is. And the fact that the prevailing attitude is a fair degree of hostility to AI, mirrors what most of the general population thinks about AI. The fact that an ungoverned and ungovernable network reflects the general consensus does not seem to be a problem that needs solving.
1/
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Not really sure what this is saying. Stipulated that most people experience the Fedi as one big interconnected social network. That's what it is. And the fact that the prevailing attitude is a fair degree of hostility to AI, mirrors what most of the general population thinks about AI. The fact that an ungoverned and ungovernable network reflects the general consensus does not seem to be a problem that needs solving.
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DOWN TO A SUNLESS SEA
Source: A foolish Old Coder and not LLM
Illustration: GenAI of Elon in the Sky
AI is Satan
So, Fedi AI is hatin'
To most, that seems fine
Few that are sane for AI pine
Flames the Old Coder doesn't seek
This rhyme is tongue in cheek
He sees AI both sides
Does not totally derides
But the AI of right now
Is a world-eating monster cow
Cthulhu, give up your seat
The cow is the monster to beat
AI the economy will smash
After the crash
Billionaires at the bottom of the sea
The place where they need to be
Mad Max 2 world with burning tires
Every institution set to expires
Crushed by AI and the orange toad
It's a colorful story and frightening load
The world's great age begins anew
The golden years return
Yeah, right, that's not going to ensue
It's all going to burn
Meet me on the other side
We'll be in rags, but we'll find our stride
Let's collect the pieces
Hand them to our nephews and nieces
There will be a bit of this and that
AI will be there but with a small hat
Not much gas, but hopefully the Net
I'd rather have the Net, you bet
Little will have been learned
A few more years may have been earned
Then the rest of the bill will come due
It's going to be warm, you know this is true
After that, it'll be down to the sunless sea
We won't be there, not you or me
Twice five miles of infertile ground
No bird will sing, there won't be a sound
#AI #climatechange #CoderSongs #rhyme #Trump
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New from me: Fediverse Report #158 - What is Mastodon for?
On the recent discourse about the Mastodon becoming an echo chamber and the community's anti-ai sentiment, and how the fundamental tension in that @Mastodon allows for people to create communities and 'place' on the instance level, but people experience community and culture on the federation level
FR#158 – What is Mastodon for?
On AI and place, and how Mastodon gives tools to create communities at the instance level, but people experience 'place' at the federation level.
connectedplaces.online (connectedplaces.online)
I'm not sure if I agree with
sentence
"It is the culture of the federation layer, formed through years of shared follows, shared boosts, shared blocks and shared arguments about what is acceptable, and it governs even though no institution maintains it."
whether is likely true that most of #fediverse users, today, has neuter or bad opinion about AI of whatever other controversial topic, nobody has the exact same "federation layer experience" as someone else.
Each one of us follow determined people, or topic, and silence or block other and that means that my federated timeline is different than yours.
If I'm seriously uninterested into something , say a bubble, or a continental popular music contest, or a sport, or whatever
I won't search for it, I won't comment it, I would eventually silence the topic.I'm not going to tell all people worldwide not to talk about it.
I follow the creator of a particular good software because I think is relevant to hear what he thinks about software, that does not mean I agree on all his opinions about anything
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@jaz @julian thanks for the great comments Jaz!
A few thoughts:
I think it bleeds through more than you (as also illustrated by that i dont really see any pro-ai collective communities on mastodon anywhere really, except maybe the terence tao cluster), but I think my main takeaway of the comment section on Scotts thread is that a lot of people want things to bleed through. Eugen, by comparing the pro-ai to puppy killers, and have that be the most liked post of the week, set the tone for that
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R relay@relay.mycrowd.ca shared this topic
