<![CDATA[I bought a car.]]>I bought a car. I’m trying to get Toyota to stop sending telemetry. I call support. They tell me I can just sign in with the app and make changes.

I point out that installing and using the app binds me to terms and conditions, one of which is binding arbitration. So I will not be installing the app.

No, no. The customer service agent confidently contradicts me. You don’t sign a contract by installing the app. It’s just like making a Facebook or google account.

🤦🏻

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/cea1bd65-a10e-4109-9df9-88b17b6f05e0/i-bought-a-car.RSS for NodeMon, 25 May 2026 13:03:12 GMTSun, 24 May 2026 03:38:15 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:32:10 GMT]]>@paco So happy my car dates from 2014 & doesn't have these things. Does have a CD player tho😂

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629564993909791https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629564993909791Sun, 24 May 2026 12:32:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:28:49 GMT]]>@duckwhistle @awfulwoman @paco However if a representative of the company states that creating said account does not bind you to those clauses (and you can prove it), things might become interesting, from a legal perspective. IANAL.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://furry.engineer/users/ysegrim/statuses/116629551799535921https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://furry.engineer/users/ysegrim/statuses/116629551799535921Sun, 24 May 2026 12:28:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:54 GMT]]>@awfulwoman It’s easier said than done. My car is like the RAV4, but it’s a BZ4X. Look at what it takes to “cut the cable” on a RAV4. I will do this eventually, but I need instructions this detailed.

Link Preview Image
Removing the Modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 Hybrid

Modern cars are computers on wheels that send home nonstop telemetry about you. In this post I remove my 2024 RAV4 Hybrid's modem and GPS to prevent that :)

favicon

(arkadiyt.com)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629548219491613https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629548219491613Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:14 GMT]]>@ausfestivus

Seems line an opportunity for some enterprising mechanic. I know I'd pay instead of attempting this myself.

@paco @daedalus

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://left-bank.net/ap/users/115996564141250603/statuses/116629545576337967https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://left-bank.net/ap/users/115996564141250603/statuses/116629545576337967Sun, 24 May 2026 12:27:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:26:14 GMT]]>@paco @zotnobot @isocat 🤦‍♂️

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629541621729442https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ioc.exchange/users/annehargreaves/statuses/116629541621729442Sun, 24 May 2026 12:26:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:58 GMT]]>@elebertus I’m over on a Toyota forum asking about it. The ONLY replies I get are like “you can’t stop all the ALPR and apps on your phone, so why bother with the car?” And similar “who cares?” sorts of replies. It’s depressing. People actively resisting my effort to stop the data collection.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629536700135956https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629536700135956Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:28 GMT]]>@paco It's almost like they themselves have not read, understood, and agreed to the terms.

I'm about to have the same issue with Volvo once I move to a state with privacy laws. They want me to pay $200/yr for their phone app, and I don't want it to be a phone app.

Why does everything have to be a fucking phone app?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://defcon.social/users/manchicken/statuses/116629534706499792https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://defcon.social/users/manchicken/statuses/116629534706499792Sun, 24 May 2026 12:24:28 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:21:59 GMT]]>@ausfestivus Thanks. Yeah that’s how I know I can replace the DCM with a wiring harness. But there aren’t instructions (that I have seen) for doing this on a BZ4X.

@daedalus

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629524920569280https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629524920569280Sun, 24 May 2026 12:21:59 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:20:46 GMT]]>I’m looking into it. I know a couple things for sure. Data collection is opt-out, the modem is buried deep inside the dashboard (so a huge PITA to get) and the phone microphone runs through the DCM (data communications module). For $70 I can get a bypass harness that you put in place of the DCM. It’s just wires with the right connectors and it keeps a few things connected (like the microphone) that would be disconnected by simply removing the DCM.

What I am uncertain about is how to get to the DCM. For a lot of cars (RAV4, Camry) there are published instructions. I’m not afraid, but I won’t do it without instructions.

Also, the symbol on the screen that indicates DCM is not working is already indicating that. When I spoke to the folks in customer service, they did some stuff on their end. So I’m not sure if it’s transmitting or not. I do know that it can. It probably is. But the icon suggests it is not.

Finally there are lots of extra stupid things. If I disconnect the DCM, the cars GPS stops working. That’s fine. But then my iPhone, when connected to the car, will use the broken signals from the cars broken GPS, and then it won’t know where it is! Also, I have to connect CarPlay by wire, not wireless. If I connect by wireless, the car will use the phone to transmit its telemetry!

What a massive PITA!

@zotnobot @isocat

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629520140785683https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/paco/statuses/116629520140785683Sun, 24 May 2026 12:20:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:14 GMT]]>@violenteastcoastcity @paco Lawyers complicate everything. My gut feel is that the "contract" or any terms and conditions are barely enforceable.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.world/users/RABid/statuses/116629482653711538https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.world/users/RABid/statuses/116629482653711538Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:04 GMT]]>@paco @briankrebs https://youtu.be/T4Upf_B9RLQ?si=30QmcFZ9_T1pBjLq

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://nrw.social/users/vgoller/statuses/116629482003382694https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://nrw.social/users/vgoller/statuses/116629482003382694Sun, 24 May 2026 12:11:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:34:23 GMT]]>@awfulwoman
"people don't give a shit" is hardly an astute observation.
I'm saying that people not giving a shit about stuff like this is bad for them, bad for you, and bad for me. It's bad for the rule of law and thus civilization in general, so calling it out like this shows how fucked our society is 🤷
If you don't think that's relevant to you congratulations, you're part of the problem.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629337788114300https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629337788114300Sun, 24 May 2026 11:34:23 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:31:30 GMT]]>@pthane @paco Why don't you ask Kia, rather than strangers on the internet? Send them a DSAR. #11.1.1

https://www.kia.com/uk/privacy/

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/emilion/statuses/116629326459283276https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/emilion/statuses/116629326459283276Sun, 24 May 2026 11:31:30 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:10:42 GMT]]>@paco I have once met a guy that drove an old car from the 60s/70s.

He told he would never drive a car he couldn' t repair on his own and is stuffed with electronics.

Fair enough.

We all agree, that petrol engines are not sustainable, but maybe there is a little more, why they push us to buy newer and electr(on)ic cars.

SIM cards are there now for around a decade and they tell us just for positioning, in case your car breaks down, or got stolen.

Tell me lies tell me sweet little lies

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/desatyr/statuses/116629244639127121https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/desatyr/statuses/116629244639127121Sun, 24 May 2026 11:10:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 11:00:20 GMT]]>@duckwhistle I’m saying that this person is talking to a bunch of poorly paid first-line support people and that these support people don’t give a shit. Please read what I said.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://indieweb.social/users/awfulwoman/statuses/116629203849434348https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://indieweb.social/users/awfulwoman/statuses/116629203849434348Sun, 24 May 2026 11:00:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:46 GMT]]>@paco if it makes you feel any better, I'm in a now 5-month long email exchange with where I'm trying to get them to send me the English version of the updated policy the car wants me to agree to every time I turn it on.

Because the car is showing it to me in German.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/nikclayton/statuses/116629154448230162https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/nikclayton/statuses/116629154448230162Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:45 GMT]]>@awfulwoman
But everybody who signs up for these services "should" know! The fact that most people don't seem to is an indictment of the schools system and education priorities, as well as evidence of corporations abusive relationship with their customer base.
If you maintain that its unrealistic to expect lay people to be aware that legally binding agreements are legally binding, that is an argument that all such contracts are unenforcible.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629154424127394https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116629154424127394Sun, 24 May 2026 10:47:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:18:53 GMT]]>@Kerplunk

The search phrase that worked for me is "telematics delete"

@paco

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.online/users/Orb2069/statuses/116629040859978484https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.online/users/Orb2069/statuses/116629040859978484Sun, 24 May 2026 10:18:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:14:02 GMT]]>@paco @kotaro I had a similar exchange with an IKEA service worker. Whether I wanted to get money or a coupon for returning an item. Since I was intending on buying something after, I thought accepting a coupon made things easier for everyone.

The coupon will be sent to your e-mail address, it is a link you need to open and consent to a bunch of things.

Service worker assured me IKEA doesn’t do the tracking you consent to. I asked him how he knows, did he program it? He refunded me the money.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ipv6.social/users/jornane/statuses/116629021813770986https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ipv6.social/users/jornane/statuses/116629021813770986Sun, 24 May 2026 10:14:02 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:12:37 GMT]]>@paco Ask for that in writing.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/kbm0/statuses/116629016265517858https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/kbm0/statuses/116629016265517858Sun, 24 May 2026 10:12:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 10:07:37 GMT]]>@duckwhistle @paco why would they know? They’re first line support people. Just because YOU know doesn’t mean THEY know. Theory of Mind, mate.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://indieweb.social/users/awfulwoman/statuses/116628996597121349https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://indieweb.social/users/awfulwoman/statuses/116628996597121349Sun, 24 May 2026 10:07:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 09:54:29 GMT]]>@awfulwoman @paco
the notable factor here is not that they were unable to help, but that they had not even a hint of understanding that the fact that the compulsory agreeing to the terms & conditions nobody reads when they sign up to stuff, does in fact constitute a legal contract.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116628944937901473https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.org.uk/users/duckwhistle/statuses/116628944937901473Sun, 24 May 2026 09:54:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 09:49:08 GMT]]>@paco

Sigh…

Privacy is dead.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/xs4me2/statuses/116628923930883585https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/xs4me2/statuses/116628923930883585Sun, 24 May 2026 09:49:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to I bought a car. on Sun, 24 May 2026 07:50:30 GMT]]>@violenteastcoastcity @paco it must be a lady, right?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.online/users/Eninata/statuses/116628457403637241https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.online/users/Eninata/statuses/116628457403637241Sun, 24 May 2026 07:50:30 GMT