<![CDATA[Another train journey.]]>Another train journey. And it's time for another accessibility rant.

When Deutschebahn announced they were buying some level access Intercity stock (later to be named the ICE L). I was pleased. Finally DB were understanding that accessibility was important.

Except when the first trains rolled into Berlin Hbf in December, it became very obvious that DB had entirely failed to understand the assignment.

Please mind the gap between your expectations and the service actually delivered.

1/n

Link Preview ImageLink Preview Image
]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/ba3cf476-b68e-449e-b400-fbbceaeaa0f2/another-train-journey.RSS for NodeFri, 01 May 2026 04:38:46 GMTWed, 15 Apr 2026 08:04:41 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Sun, 19 Apr 2026 10:10:14 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek Oh let me guess, they also still only have one wheelchair-accessible toilet for a train hundreds of metres long which also contains the train’s one and only changing table?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://chaos.social/users/pb/statuses/116430826030933875https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://chaos.social/users/pb/statuses/116430826030933875Sun, 19 Apr 2026 10:10:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Sun, 19 Apr 2026 07:55:56 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek We visited Germany by train with young kids a few years ago and were shocked by how hard it was with prams. And the regional trains you were then stuck in the luggage area once you were on

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/wiresmith/statuses/116430297932792693https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/wiresmith/statuses/116430297932792693Sun, 19 Apr 2026 07:55:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Sun, 19 Apr 2026 07:30:22 GMT]]>@earthtoneone @quixoticgeek I thought the same at first!

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.green/users/CiaraNi/statuses/116430197407940913https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.green/users/CiaraNi/statuses/116430197407940913Sun, 19 Apr 2026 07:30:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:59:34 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek Sadly a lot of EU countries have even poorer disability access rights legislation than the UK on transport.

https://www.ksta.de/region/leverkusen/stadt-leverkusen/leverkusen-prozess-um-rausschmiss-aus-der-bahn-endet-im-tumult-1256025 is a recent German case. The German wheelchair user had the right to travel, but the train manager "didn't wanna" so got him evicted from the train by police who were violent (cos wheelchair user refused to move) and the courts backed the disablist train service not the disabled wheelchair user.

Labelled level access often Really Isn't!

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://disabled.social/users/NatalyaD/statuses/116410022287267650https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://disabled.social/users/NatalyaD/statuses/116410022287267650Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:59:34 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:39:24 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek @moof @WeirdWriter DSB very deliberately, for better or worse, selected something as close to what DB did as possible. This was mainly to avoid accusations of repeating the IC4 scandal by buying something bespoke.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://bsd.network/users/taf/statuses/116409942958751656https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://bsd.network/users/taf/statuses/116409942958751656Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:39:24 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:05:05 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek "How can they be so incompetent?" it's noot incompetence - it is dliberate ignorance.

Germany signed the "Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities" into law back in... uh... 2009? Anyway. Trouble is that even though it is *legally binding*, the German law does not define *sanctions*.
That's why DB can drag&drag&drag their feet.

That's that. I can give you a shitload of examples of *freshly retrofitted platforms* looking like a prop from a Clive Barker movie.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ruhr.social/users/itnomad/statuses/116409808046618894https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://ruhr.social/users/itnomad/statuses/116409808046618894Wed, 15 Apr 2026 17:05:05 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 16:50:26 GMT]]>@oheso @quixoticgeek Actually for walking people with a cane it's easier to have a step up than down!

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/irina/statuses/116409750363152526https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/irina/statuses/116409750363152526Wed, 15 Apr 2026 16:50:26 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 16:48:08 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek person with a cane who really needs everything to be on the same level (me)!

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/irina/statuses/116409741359914556https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/irina/statuses/116409741359914556Wed, 15 Apr 2026 16:48:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:39:29 GMT]]>@earthtoneone @quixoticgeek Not only the gap, but I guess the height difference would make it hard(er) for people in wheelchairs to get in and out.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://lile.cl/users/adriano/statuses/116409471441412474https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://lile.cl/users/adriano/statuses/116409471441412474Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:39:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:34:06 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek I initially thought the first photo was the "bad" example, because that's still a pretty significant gap. The second, I can't believe that's considered safe for anyone!

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/earthtoneone/statuses/116409450273368515https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/earthtoneone/statuses/116409450273368515Wed, 15 Apr 2026 15:34:06 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:48:47 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek @jetlagjen ADA leaders were consulted and they were unenthusiastic but resigned. The tradeoff is that the FLIRTs will at least allow independent level boarding - the State's new Siemens Venture trains allow full traversal of the set but require much-delayed minihigh platforms and boarding ramps for anything that doesn't want to navigate 1m in steps.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/Rgsharpe/statuses/116409036175639746https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/Rgsharpe/statuses/116409036175639746Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:48:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:40:42 GMT]]>@Rgsharpe @jetlagjen that sounds like an ADA lawsuit waiting to happen.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116409004336181796https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116409004336181796Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:40:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:39:31 GMT]]>@jetlagjen @quixoticgeek California is going through that right now with its Stadler FLIRT H2 purchase -- the vehicle geometry basically prevents them from making space for wheelchairs (or any other nonpedal use) to traverse the train, so the restrooms, disabled seating, vending machines, etc. are all getting crammed into the floor space between the two bogies.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/Rgsharpe/statuses/116408999701719162https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/Rgsharpe/statuses/116408999701719162Wed, 15 Apr 2026 13:39:31 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:19:15 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek "the only coach with wheelchair space"

That sounds like a poor decision on its own.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://gts.phillipsuk.org/users/jetlagjen/statuses/01KP8H9NJB987JTEV93XDSTB96https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://gts.phillipsuk.org/users/jetlagjen/statuses/01KP8H9NJB987JTEV93XDSTB96Wed, 15 Apr 2026 12:19:15 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 10:47:00 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek @WeirdWriter The Deutsche Bahn's attitude to pretty much everything these days is "fuck you all", as evidenced by their timekeeping and the complete dogs breakfast of their treatment of the Stuttgart to Switzerland line.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mas.to/users/drewtowler/statuses/116408321337026498https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mas.to/users/drewtowler/statuses/116408321337026498Wed, 15 Apr 2026 10:47:00 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 09:00:48 GMT]]>Re. small children: Went on a school trip with 7&8yo. We had to get off at a small station (just a stop without a building). When returning to Brussels I had to hoist several kids up the steps because they were too small to climb in!

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.community/users/FrancesLievens/statuses/116407903780532718https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.community/users/FrancesLievens/statuses/116407903780532718Wed, 15 Apr 2026 09:00:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:44:21 GMT]]>@mjr yes. Since drop curbs/curb cuts were first introduced we have realised that continuous pavement is the better approach. But the name "the curb cut effect" still applies to the idea of an accessibility aid making things better for everyone.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407839091307199https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407839091307199Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:44:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:41:46 GMT]]>@quixoticgeek I thought we wanted continuous sidewalks (pavements) not curb cuts that make walkers have to negotiate two ramps?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://masto.bike/users/mjr/statuses/116407828874717866https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://masto.bike/users/mjr/statuses/116407828874717866Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:41:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:25:12 GMT]]>Disappointingly, from what I can tell DSB, who bought the same Talgo 230 rolling stock has the same accessibility choice in their purchase. I wonder if Flixtrain have made the same choice with their Talgo 230 purchase.

Special thanks to @moof for the photos of the ICE L.

And if you haven't read @WeirdWriter post about door knobs, you should. https://sightlessscribbles.com/posts/doorknob-hostility/
7/7

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407763755555815https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407763755555815Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:25:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:22:25 GMT]]>Accessible design makes the train easier to use for everyone. What Deutschebahn has said here is "fuck you all, we'll do the absolute bare minimum". The excellent writer @WeirdWriter has an article about door handle design with the line: "show me your doorknobs, and I’ll tell you who you are"

Show me the entrance to your nations trains and I'll tell you your country's attitude to anyone isn't perfectly able bodied. And the attitude from DB is somewhere between fuck you & the bare minimum.
6/n

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407752791178849https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407752791178849Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:22:25 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:17:32 GMT]]>"But there are gap fillers in the only coach with wheelchair space". I can hear some apologists typing.

This is one of the biggest misconceptions of accessible design. That only wheelchair users need it.

What about parents with kids in a pushchair? Or people with heavy wheeled luggage? Or people who walk with a frame? Or crutches? Or people with balance issue? Or travelling with young children?

Just like how the curb cut effect makes the built environment better for everyone.
5/n

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407733590847188https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407733590847188Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:17:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:14:17 GMT]]>I simply cannot get my head round how DB can be this incompetent in their purchasing not to require gap fillers on their new train.

My mind boggles that Talgo don't have this as a default install.

But then I also don't understand why EU and German law doesn't require all new trains be accessible without assistance.

How no gap fillers made it into the final design makes no sense. It's such a basic part of good accessible design.
4/n

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407720829759143https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407720829759143Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:14:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:10:42 GMT]]>These are aptly called "gap fillers". They allow anything with wheels to roll relatively easily onto the train from the station platform (or visa versa). DB with the ICE L however, has failed to understand this fundamental design feature.

They have gap fillers on the ICE L, if you look at the fiat picture at the start of the thread you can see one. Except they only have them on one coach of the 17 coach train.

One.

The other 16 coaches are like in the second picture.
3/n

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407706776219536https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407706776219536Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:10:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Another train journey. on Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:07:58 GMT]]>There's a lot more to level access trains than just setting the train door height to the same as the platform. You also need to make sure a lot of the geometry inside the train is conducive to those with mobility needs. But one of the key requirements is making sure you do something about the gap between the train and the platform. On most level access trains, there's a little platform that moves out from the train to fill in the gap between the platform and train.

2/n

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407696003209900https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.v.st/users/quixoticgeek/statuses/116407696003209900Wed, 15 Apr 2026 08:07:58 GMT