<![CDATA[oh, oh wow]]>oh, oh wow

we found a bug in our Forth

if a line ends with the word ~, which introduces a comment that lasts until the end of the line, the next line is commented

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/a9335fff-cd8d-4f0b-b613-ee17b4ab3bf1/oh-oh-wowRSS for NodeFri, 15 May 2026 02:31:47 GMTThu, 07 May 2026 00:37:30 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 21:21:17 GMT]]>@ireneista Static or dynamic?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/alwayscurious/statuses/116535386265723762https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/alwayscurious/statuses/116535386265723762Thu, 07 May 2026 21:21:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 21:13:46 GMT]]>@alwayscurious it's for sure a thing we're going to change πŸ˜„

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR24M7PN31KJE2WQT761GQ0Dhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR24M7PN31KJE2WQT761GQ0DThu, 07 May 2026 21:13:46 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 17:59:41 GMT]]>@ireneista Isn’t the complete lack of type checking in Forth already cruel? πŸ˜†

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/alwayscurious/statuses/116534593576334002https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/alwayscurious/statuses/116534593576334002Thu, 07 May 2026 17:59:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 17:55:50 GMT]]>@ireneista preadv2, pwritev2, send, recv, sendmsg, recvmsg, and the like all have ways to avoid blocking.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/alwayscurious/statuses/116534578424351080https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/alwayscurious/statuses/116534578424351080Thu, 07 May 2026 17:55:50 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:33:52 GMT]]>we could make it silently corrupt internal data structures in that case, but that feels pointlessly cruel to our future selves πŸ˜„

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR013R1Y33KJ1T9XHH32111Qhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR013R1Y33KJ1T9XHH32111QThu, 07 May 2026 01:33:52 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:33:12 GMT]]>hmmmm okay, so, we think we'll have consume do nothing if the buffer is already empty

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR012H74WXKXKEBW8NH0J0TNhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR012H74WXKXKEBW8NH0J0TNThu, 07 May 2026 01:33:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:30:33 GMT]]>keeping these big-picture concerns in mind can be tedious

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00XPF5KT0Y56JWQR1AGMH4https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00XPF5KT0Y56JWQR1AGMH4Thu, 07 May 2026 01:30:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:30:22 GMT]]>okay. fine. we aren't deciding on "glimpse" now, we just wanted to know there's at least one reasonable way forward before we proceed with "peek". there is, so we're going to proceed. yay πŸ™‚

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00XBMTTSY2QCG5W1BY6RTDhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00XBMTTSY2QCG5W1BY6RTDThu, 07 May 2026 01:30:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:29:34 GMT]]>"peek" is already a really nice word for "look to see what's there but carefully don't change anything"

it's not immediately obvious what word we would use for "be even more careful than peeking, just make it really quick"

oh - "glimpse" lol... if we want to run with the visual metaphor. maybe we do.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00VW7NPERKAPSVQBD5AYRThttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00VW7NPERKAPSVQBD5AYRTThu, 07 May 2026 01:29:34 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:28:47 GMT]]>(at the kernel level, it's an ioctl() that you do on the file descriptor, which persistently changes its behavior, but we can still organize our tooling to hide that fact, if we want, and we do)

notionally it could have the same responsibilities but in a non-waiting version

or we could break the responsibilities down into even more granular pieces. hm hmmm. these are deep questions

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00TEJART6NJKHWJ5EQD1VDhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00TEJART6NJKHWJ5EQD1VDThu, 07 May 2026 01:28:47 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:26:09 GMT]]>we disapprove of global mutable state, so whenever we do add a non-waiting variant, it would be a separate call with a separate name, not a flag we toggle

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00NMT4NE550P2A049N0AWPhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00NMT4NE550P2A049N0AWPThu, 07 May 2026 01:26:09 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:25:41 GMT]]>so the thing we're calling peek, notionally, includes the responsibility of waiting, as part of that system call

(see? you thought we were being overly pedantic in listing all that, above! admit it :D)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00MRPFW2R25PTXXZ7DJR6Zhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00MRPFW2R25PTXXZ7DJR6ZThu, 07 May 2026 01:25:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:23:55 GMT]]>we don't need to add anything to deal with temporal behavior right this moment, but we want to make sure it's clear how we would

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00HH53PAXBR5Q3YKGVWM18https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00HH53PAXBR5Q3YKGVWM18Thu, 07 May 2026 01:23:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:23:34 GMT]]>and we're just trying to make sure we don't paint ourselves into a corner with how we organize this functionality

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00GWM98QC1MT4H93TGEKTChttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00GWM98QC1MT4H93TGEKTCThu, 07 May 2026 01:23:34 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:23:17 GMT]]>sometimes you care about the difference between "the next available byte" and "the next byte available right now"

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00GCAQGX7ZDFAG22ZXT09Phttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00GCAQGX7ZDFAG22ZXT09PThu, 07 May 2026 01:23:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:22:54 GMT]]>that's been a big frustration of ours in Rust (though it's been better since the Rust library smol came along, it was quite frustrating with several popular async libraries prior to that point)

a stream isn't just a sequence of bytes, it's a sequence of bytes that arrive at some point in time and possibly in response to things happening in the world outside of the program

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00FP7RR1655FFZQWB8N1PHhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00FP7RR1655FFZQWB8N1PHThu, 07 May 2026 01:22:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:21:20 GMT]]>however we're realizing that this also bears on one of the big compatibility questions we've had in mind from the start, which is how to make sure it's not too annoying to deal with situations where the temporal behavior of input matters

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00CT46191Y1HV7DYZ42X50https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00CT46191Y1HV7DYZ42X50Thu, 07 May 2026 01:21:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:20:41 GMT]]>the responsibilities that key have now are to check what input is present; to invoke a system call to read more if needed; to put the next byte of it on the value stack as a return value; and to advance the input buffer so that the same input won't be returned next time.

so the simple way to do this would be to delegate those first three things to peek and the last one to consume

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00BM3J92TXYXP09R0RG6KDhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR00BM3J92TXYXP09R0RG6KDThu, 07 May 2026 01:20:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:18:51 GMT]]>so we want to split the behavior of key-from into peek-from and consume-from and have `key-from simplified to just call those

and then we probably, as backfill, want to also implement peek and consume which call main-input-buffer and invoke the *-from variants on it. we won't use those variants in word but user code might want to

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR0088V8GMVBJ6FKQBX51CBMhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR0088V8GMVBJ6FKQBX51CBMThu, 07 May 2026 01:18:51 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 01:17:49 GMT]]>okay so the current hierarchy of things is that the top-level word is quit, which loops and calls interpret, which calls word, which calls key in its own loop, which calls main-input-buffer to get the metadata pointer and passes that to key-from.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR006C1BA6450GERHQ8D3MBWhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KR006C1BA6450GERHQ8D3MBWThu, 07 May 2026 01:17:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 00:59:35 GMT]]>the hardest bugs to find are the ones that are direct consequences of intended behavior πŸ™‚

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZZ5011CJPCJ8V21GAAT9PFhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZZ5011CJPCJ8V21GAAT9PFThu, 07 May 2026 00:59:35 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 00:59:08 GMT]]>we tried dropping back to gdb which is how we debugged everything until Evocation's own debugging abilities got better, but that didn't tell us anything useful. we had to fall back to modding the interpreter to print every word before executing it, which did get us on the right track.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZZ45AAHD3AXKS3DAH1RSBWhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZZ45AAHD3AXKS3DAH1RSBWThu, 07 May 2026 00:59:08 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 00:54:54 GMT]]>it was quite frustrating debugging this, btw. we kind of got nowhere with bisecting how we introduced the problem, which in hindsight makes sense because we were doing that by commenting out lines, and doing so was having effects we didn't expect

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZYWDMRXB1QNHG57WGHA49Xhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZYWDMRXB1QNHG57WGHA49XThu, 07 May 2026 00:54:54 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to oh, oh wow on Thu, 07 May 2026 00:48:23 GMT]]>okay, thinking it through... moving to using peek as part of word will only affect words that read strings, which is just s" and .". they'll both need to consume that character explicitly. that seems fine to us, though it does defy conventional Forth practice. we're gonna get way more blasphemous eventually, so that's fine.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZYGFTAH9ZDR6E9CKQZ7XW0https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://adhd.irenes.space/users/ireneista/statuses/01KQZYGFTAH9ZDR6E9CKQZ7XW0Thu, 07 May 2026 00:48:23 GMT