<![CDATA[Something I have trouble explaining about space travel.]]>Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. Like, if you've read my book, you know I think human space faring is probably not economically valuable. It's not a good use of science dollars compared to other areas. I'm even skeptical of the case for inspiration (it doesn't seem to causally related to more aerospace degrees).

But it's also just really cool. Why don't I feel this way about Antarctica or Seabed exploration?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/a5ed3003-484f-446e-a87e-36bdf0d35df5/something-i-have-trouble-explaining-about-space-travel.RSS for NodeMon, 06 Apr 2026 14:45:17 GMTSun, 05 Apr 2026 13:03:02 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Mon, 06 Apr 2026 06:53:01 GMT]]>@tphinney @alanpaxton @cstross @lemgandi @datarama @ZachWeinersmith a TV company re-enacted some of the expedition with like-for-like materials and food. The Scandinavian team ate like kings and actually gained weight, but the Brits all lost weight and were suffering malnutrition so the programme had to be stopped before they suffered long term effects.

Scott gambled and in most years would have made it back alive, but Amundsen had the better materials and food however you look at it.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/drajt/statuses/116356440494726236https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/drajt/statuses/116356440494726236Mon, 06 Apr 2026 06:53:01 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Mon, 06 Apr 2026 03:55:52 GMT]]>@lemgandi Yeah, it was Shackleton who didn’t make it there. But he did make it back without losing a man, which makes him a way bigger hero than Scott, if you ask me.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mendeddrum.org/users/pdcawley/statuses/116355743928184899https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mendeddrum.org/users/pdcawley/statuses/116355743928184899Mon, 06 Apr 2026 03:55:52 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 23:07:15 GMT]]>@ZachWeinersmith I wonder if kerbal space program has inspired more aerospace degrees than human space flight.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.gamedev.place/users/copper_tunic/statuses/116354609019673350https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.gamedev.place/users/copper_tunic/statuses/116354609019673350Sun, 05 Apr 2026 23:07:15 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:12:04 GMT]]>@bigblen In fairness, we also have a big bronze bust of Amundsen. He has a very shiny nose, because it is considered lucky to touch it when you visit the museum.

A journalist looked into this a few years ago, and it turns out that this tradition dates back to the 1960s, when a tour guide found himself with time to fill. He made up a local legend about Amundsen's nose having aphrodisiac qualities and the tourists all queued up to touch it.

favicon

(ehive.com)

@datarama @cstross @ZachWeinersmith

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/isaacfreeman/statuses/116354156069146259https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/isaacfreeman/statuses/116354156069146259Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:12:04 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:11:32 GMT]]>@datarama @ZachWeinersmith @cstross San Francisco remembers, too. https://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=Roald_Amundsen_and_Gjoa_memorial. When I was in Norway earlier this year, I went to the Fram museum; it was amazing.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://dice.camp/users/steveo/statuses/116354153981013372https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://dice.camp/users/steveo/statuses/116354153981013372Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:11:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:07:41 GMT]]>@bigblen @cstross @ZachWeinersmith As far as I know there aren't any Amundsen statues in Denmark, but there are some in Norway. In Oslo, there's actually a monument with five statues, one of each of Amundsen's expedition members who reached the South Pole (including himself, of course).

I used to live just a couple of streets away from one of those streets named after him. When I was a kid and we learned about the history of polar exploration, we got a long story of Amundsen's expedition - and Scott got only a brief mention.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/datarama/statuses/116354138890072544https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/datarama/statuses/116354138890072544Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:07:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:06:45 GMT]]>@alanpaxton @cstross @lemgandi @datarama @ZachWeinersmith Special shout-out to Shackleton: hard to believe he didn’t lose anyone from Endurance. (Though three of his “Lost Men” laying supply caches did die, as is oft forgotten.)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://typo.social/users/tphinney/statuses/116354135206525810https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://typo.social/users/tphinney/statuses/116354135206525810Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:06:45 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:04:34 GMT]]>@alanpaxton @cstross @lemgandi @datarama @ZachWeinersmith I would not call it “arrogant imperial incompetence.” First a rendezvous failed as the rest of Scott’s team simply failed to show up as expected, and then after prolonged bad weather, Scott and his last companions got stuck another 10 days in a blizzard just 20 km (12 mi) short of the final depot / meeting place.

All these arctic/antarctic explorers had to have some level of hubris to try so hard to be first. Given the competition, nobody was going to be first without significant risks.

The real shocker with Antarctic exploration is that there weren’t MORE deaths. These expeditions were all inherently risky. There were too many unknowns, & safety margins were not high enough to protect against all risks.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://typo.social/users/tphinney/statuses/116354126606992767https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://typo.social/users/tphinney/statuses/116354126606992767Sun, 05 Apr 2026 21:04:34 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 20:21:38 GMT]]>@cstross @lemgandi @datarama @ZachWeinersmith nope. Killed by arrogant imperial incompetence and cutting things too fine.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://urbanists.social/users/alanpaxton/statuses/116353957761010813https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://urbanists.social/users/alanpaxton/statuses/116353957761010813Sun, 05 Apr 2026 20:21:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 20:07:37 GMT]]>@ZachWeinersmith Pls read "Terror and Erebus" or watch the (Prime, huh) series "The Terror". Back then - that was all the rage!! Oh and Simmonds has another one (if you prefer reading), "The Abominable" - no TV series on that one, but it's a roll!

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodonsweden.se/ap/users/115530994268714826/statuses/116353902665181223https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodonsweden.se/ap/users/115530994268714826/statuses/116353902665181223Sun, 05 Apr 2026 20:07:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 19:57:37 GMT]]>@cstross @datarama @ZachWeinersmith

Ah, you right and I am wrong.

Not makin' it back is a pretty big deal tho.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/lemgandi/statuses/116353863339799870https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/lemgandi/statuses/116353863339799870Sun, 05 Apr 2026 19:57:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 19:56:07 GMT]]>@lemgandi @datarama @ZachWeinersmith Scott *did* make it to the South Pole! But he got there weeks after Amundsen then his entire team died before they got back to base. (Killed by spectacularly bad weather, even by Antarctic standards.)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/cstross/statuses/116353857442716889https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/cstross/statuses/116353857442716889Sun, 05 Apr 2026 19:56:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 19:51:14 GMT]]>@datarama @cstross @ZachWeinersmith

TBF, Scott didn't make it.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/lemgandi/statuses/116353838276345675https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/lemgandi/statuses/116353838276345675Sun, 05 Apr 2026 19:51:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 18:25:33 GMT]]>@cstross @ZachWeinersmith Perhaps unsurprisingly, here in Denmark we *do* remember Roald Amundsen. There are streets named after him and the like.

(But we have little if any cultural memory of Scott.)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/datarama/statuses/116353501300810593https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/datarama/statuses/116353501300810593Sun, 05 Apr 2026 18:25:33 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 18:07:57 GMT]]>@cstross @ZachWeinersmith I feel compelled to mention the number of 1900s and 1910s science fiction boys novels about arctic or antarctic exploration.

I just finished "through the air to the north pole" a not especially noteworthy entrant in the genre.

This kind of thing was absolutely the stuff of dreams and ambition prior to the age of commercial flight.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://retro.social/users/ajroach42/statuses/116353432133344037https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://retro.social/users/ajroach42/statuses/116353432133344037Sun, 05 Apr 2026 18:07:57 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 16:26:51 GMT]]>@cstross @ZachWeinersmith Exactly. Similar for undersea exploration in the 1940s to 1960s (roughly). What makes space special is its enduring and outsize role in popular culture. "Antarctic opera" or "Undersea opera" don't have the same draw as their space equivalent.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.pnpde.social/users/Rackhir/statuses/116353034587802623https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.pnpde.social/users/Rackhir/statuses/116353034587802623Sun, 05 Apr 2026 16:26:51 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 15:39:58 GMT]]>@bartjan @DrEvanGowan @ZachWeinersmith I have to money to go to Antarctica. From the 60 million it cost to go to space, I'm short a "little" over 59 million.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.nl/users/technetium/statuses/116352850211398489https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.nl/users/technetium/statuses/116352850211398489Sun, 05 Apr 2026 15:39:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 15:28:56 GMT]]>@ZachWeinersmith I think the attraction is basically big freaking rockets. All that fire and drama that submersibles or snowmobiles lack. More action movie, less Attenborough documentary.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/bjn/statuses/116352806815611830https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/bjn/statuses/116352806815611830Sun, 05 Apr 2026 15:28:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 15:27:36 GMT]]>@cstross @ZachWeinersmith Off topic, but a podcast on the Scott expedition was how I found out just how bad scurvy was and what *specifically* it did. I still have occasional trauma flashbacks to “and then the scar from when he was sixteen opened up”….

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/katfeete/statuses/116352801619436823https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/katfeete/statuses/116352801619436823Sun, 05 Apr 2026 15:27:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:36:03 GMT]]>@cstross @ZachWeinersmith
Amundsen–Scott Was the original “Heated Rivalry” on ice.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mefi.social/users/nickgully/statuses/116352598920290227https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mefi.social/users/nickgully/statuses/116352598920290227Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:36:03 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:35:48 GMT]]>@DrEvanGowan @ZachWeinersmith going to Antarctica isn't cheap either...

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.nl/users/bartjan/statuses/116352597884906743https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.nl/users/bartjan/statuses/116352597884906743Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:35:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:19:24 GMT]]>@ZachWeinersmith
Space travel certainly has those downsides.

But consider: do we want humans to be permanently confined to Earth?

Some would say 'yes', but anyone who says 'no' should consider that today impacts tomorrow.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mathstodon.xyz/users/dougmerritt/statuses/116352533405372772https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mathstodon.xyz/users/dougmerritt/statuses/116352533405372772Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:19:24 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:12:44 GMT]]>@ZachWeinersmith Antarctic exploration *was* sexy 100-150 years ago, though! We kind of remember Captain Scott's ill-fated South polar expedition, but less so the ferocious international rivalry that drove it (or Norwegian explorer Roald Amundsen who got there first and survived).

In contrast, now we have Antarctic bases, familiarity breeds … boredom?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/cstross/statuses/116352507186116114https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://wandering.shop/users/cstross/statuses/116352507186116114Sun, 05 Apr 2026 14:12:44 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Something I have trouble explaining about space travel. on Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:49:59 GMT]]>@ZachWeinersmith
Familiarity. If you look at Victorian materials, fiction & non-fiction, they did have that kind of attitude to exploring the unknown parts of the world. Now that they are explored, space is the new frontier.

(Also BTW economic value is not a great metric for "what humans should be doing", as the environment can currently testify)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/HighlandLawyer/statuses/116352417742849529https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/HighlandLawyer/statuses/116352417742849529Sun, 05 Apr 2026 13:49:59 GMT