<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/" xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/" xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom" version="2.0"><channel><title><![CDATA[Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p>Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese</p><p>And it is the fault of MICROSOFT AND APPLE (not joking)</p><p>There are five basic vowels in Chinese. In pinyin you write them</p><p>a e i o u ü</p><p>ü is like german ü but exaggerated.</p><p>However when writing words, each vowel has a tone marker. for example in second tone these vowels are</p><p>á é  í ó ú ǘ </p><p>THE PROBLEM:</p><p>Computer operating systems since 1980 make it absurdly hard to type ǘ, ǚ etc.</p><p>So people just … … don't.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/933bea9e-b25b-49a8-8514-7a2779331bd8/okay-so-a-thing-that-has-been-enormously-frustrating-me-learning-chinese</link><generator>RSS for Node</generator><lastBuildDate>Fri, 05 Jun 2026 21:49:17 GMT</lastBuildDate><atom:link href="https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/933bea9e-b25b-49a8-8514-7a2779331bd8.rss" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml"/><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:26:36 GMT</pubDate><ttl>60</ttl><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 18:06:54 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/drahardja%40sfba.social">@<span>drahardja</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> Yes. Which means there's no especial pressure for anyone to fix this in a systematic way</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602569644411353</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602569644411353</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 18:06:54 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 18:05:41 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> I think one important factor is that 中文 speakers don’t *send* Pinyin to each other. They *use* a Pinyin keyboard to cause the computer to generate CJK characters that they then send. It’s not as important to typeset Pinyin correctly in those cases.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/drahardja/statuses/116602564857307506</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/drahardja/statuses/116602564857307506</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[drahardja@sfba.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 18:05:41 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 18:04:38 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> Americans are generally in agreement that our standard textbooks are so bad it constitutes a crisis. It's possible the effect you're describing is, literally, due to the internal politics of the state of Texas</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602560734537882</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602560734537882</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 18:04:38 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 18:03:09 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/drahardja%40sfba.social">@<span>drahardja</span></a></span> </p><p>- XCompose is based on "visual overlap", it's trying to emulate a key on a typewriter that would type without advancing. So for example if you type COMPOSE / o it becomes ø. This can easily type ü, ú, ǔ etc but the standard default XCompose file was designed in the 80s before unicode so it lacks ǘ. I have a custom XCompose file I copy between all my computers which is what makes this a "get around to it" kind of thing. But this fixes the problem for no one else</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602554911932830</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602554911932830</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 18:03:09 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 18:03:06 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc" rel="nofollow noopener">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> That having been said, I find that at least in mathematics and computer-and aviation-related subjects, German textbooks tend to teach faster and deeper than comparable English ones. I'm not entirely sure if it's about cultural differences or about the German language allowing itself more grammatic complexity. If this trend also applies to other subjects, that alone might be a good reason to learn some German.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602554688477387</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602554688477387</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[riley@toot.cat]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 18:03:06 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 18:00:22 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/drahardja%40sfba.social">@<span>drahardja</span></a></span> I am not the best person to comment on this but:</p><p>- In general, computer and phone eastern language input systems have diverged into slightly different evolutionary paths.</p><p>- I strongly suspect Apple devices either do, or can be configured to, have a reasonable unified behavior if you use the longpress method. I don't own Apple devices.</p><p>- I am using a slightly unusual input method called "XCompose", which is built in to Linux and can be enabled in Windows with "WinCompose".</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602543991822452</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602543991822452</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 18:00:22 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:58:23 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/tedmielczarek%40mastodon.social">@<span>tedmielczarek</span></a></span> That makes sense, and actually, I'm finding written Chinese easier to learn than spoken Chinese.</p><p>Problems:</p><p>- There are ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND hanzi characters. You only need to know about 3000 in practice but 3000 is a large number.</p><p>- I alluded to this above, but the most common way to enter written Chinese into a computer is… to type the spoken Chinese equivalent phonetically! <img src="https://board.circlewithadot.net/assets/plugins/nodebb-plugin-emoji/emoji/android/1f627.png?v=28325c671da" class="not-responsive emoji emoji-android emoji--anguished" style="height:23px;width:auto;vertical-align:middle" title="D:" alt="😧" /></p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602536174954706</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602536174954706</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:58:23 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:58:14 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/drahardja%40sfba.social" rel="nofollow noopener">@<span>drahardja</span></a></span> <span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc" rel="nofollow noopener">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> There's probably some sort of standard keyboard combination set / 'input method' for this sort of thing.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602535603803475</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602535603803475</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[riley@toot.cat]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:58:14 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:57:14 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc" rel="nofollow noopener">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> Well, actually, a lot of stuff is printed in English in Germany.</p><p>The German <em>language</em> doesn't make a use of dual diacritics, but at least, publishers with experience with umlauts would not automatically neglect them just because they used to be hassly to typeset.</p><p>FWIW, Vietnamese uses dual diacritics extensively. A publishing house that puts out Vietnamese textbooks would likely have no trouble at all doing the same for Mandarin.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602531644310441</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602531644310441</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[riley@toot.cat]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:57:14 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:55:16 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> I'm learning Bangla and latin transliteration for it is not at all standardized so it has been really helpful to learn the Bengali alphabet in parallel with learning grammar and vocabulary.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/tedmielczarek/statuses/116602523884954584</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/tedmielczarek/statuses/116602523884954584</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[tedmielczarek@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:55:16 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:54:00 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/drahardja%40sfba.social">@<span>drahardja</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> yeah the problem is easy to fix i just need to get around to it, it's just awkward because I need to fix it 3x (Android, Linux, Windows, Linux and Windows I'm using the same text input system so at least I can fix it the same way but Android is its own thing)</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602518932104189</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602518932104189</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:54:00 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:52:28 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> <span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> I use text-expansion tools to type characters that would otherwise be difficult to type. Maybe assign a sequence like :u1: :u2: etc. to type ǖ, ǘ, etc?</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/drahardja/statuses/116602512917133557</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sfba.social/users/drahardja/statuses/116602512917133557</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[drahardja@sfba.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:52:28 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:47:57 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/shironeko%40fedi.tesaguri.club">@<span>shironeko</span></a></span> Hmm… my Android will do this if I longpress v on the Chinese keyboard, but not if I longpress v on the English keyboard. But it would be more convenient on the English keyboard because I have to perform extra steps on the Chinese keyboard to type roman characters instead of hanzi.</p><p>Maybe I should fiddle with the settings. Or switch to Keyboard Designer.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602495129062689</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602495129062689</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:47:57 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:46:39 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="/user/riley%40toot.cat">@<span>riley</span></a></span> That's an interesting proposal but said textbook would probably be written in German which would not help me.</p><p>That said, how often do Germans *combine* the ü and ú diacritics? Like it seems like Germans would only be using the '` signs when speaking French, in which case they don't need the ü.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602490000718432</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602490000718432</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:46:39 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:41:52 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p><span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc" rel="nofollow noopener">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> Perhaps try a Chinese textbook printed in Germany?</p><p>The "norm" that diacritics don't matter is pretty much unique to the American publishing practices and their overseas influencees.</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602471249963329</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://toot.cat/users/riley/statuses/116602471249963329</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[riley@toot.cat]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:41:52 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:40:09 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p>So:</p><p>- Resources that are likely to teach me Chinese words silently omit the diaeresis on ü</p><p>- However, I am then expected to know the diaeresis is there, because the Android IME which is the most convenient way to enter 中文 in a computer will expect me to substitute v for u, because Android expects I know 汉语 or else why would I be using a 汉语 phonetic input method?!</p><p>- The problem is international cultural norms downstream from a technological problem so I cannot fix it except with a time machine</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602464471549122</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602464471549122</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:40:09 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:35:52 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<p>In all written resources I find intended for non-中文 speakers, whenever you find written Pinyin, ǘ is ALWAYS simplified to ú. Which is INCORRECT. That is a DIFFERENT SOUND and 汉语 speakers will NOT UNDERSTAND YOU.</p><p>And resources for 中文 speakers are, obviously, written in 中文; the only way 中文 speakers interact with Pinyin is computer IMEs. On these systems, you just replace u with v. Type "lv" to mean lǜ.</p><p>By now we have unicode diacritics so ǜ displays easy, but everyone's used to the compromises…</p>]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602447648970024</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/mcc/statuses/116602447648970024</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[mcc@mastodon.social]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:35:52 GMT</pubDate></item><item><title><![CDATA[Reply to Okay so a thing that has been enormously frustrating me learning Chinese on Tue, 19 May 2026 17:35:11 GMT]]></title><description><![CDATA[<span><a href="https://mastodon.social/@mcc" rel="ugc">@<span>mcc</span></a></span> some use v in place of ü, so e.g. on my phone if I long press v it give me ǚǖǘǜü]]></description><link>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fedi.tesaguri.club/objects/5a467059-0c12-4505-b402-95a60d3a3e41</link><guid isPermaLink="true">https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fedi.tesaguri.club/objects/5a467059-0c12-4505-b402-95a60d3a3e41</guid><dc:creator><![CDATA[shironeko@fedi.tesaguri.club]]></dc:creator><pubDate>Tue, 19 May 2026 17:35:11 GMT</pubDate></item></channel></rss>