<![CDATA[Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font?]]>Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font?

If someone says "2 columns" or "3 columns", they mean it in the sense that a newspaper is laid out in multiple columns – you read to the bottom of the first column before starting from the top of the next.

But if they say "80 columns" or "132 columns", they mean the number of monospaced character cells that fit across one line of text _within_ one of those columns.

If you need, for example, a command-line option for each of these, and you don't want to call either option '--columns' because that's ambiguous, what _do_ you call each one?

Particularly the first one (2 or 3 columns). I haven't come up with any good description for it that doesn't involve a definition by negatives. "Number of columns, no, not in that sense, the other sense."

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/4298a12a-a919-4889-9770-4743660d62e9/terminology-what-are-good-unambiguous-names-for-the-two-senses-of-the-word-column-when-printing-text-in-a-monospaced-fontRSS for NodeSun, 31 May 2026 16:27:36 GMTThu, 21 May 2026 09:39:07 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 11:06:29 GMT]]>@simontatham @ewenmcneill Both column(1) and Python’s textwrap agree that `width' is the number of characters.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.sdf.org/users/jleedev/statuses/116612241105410541https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.sdf.org/users/jleedev/statuses/116612241105410541Thu, 21 May 2026 11:06:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:45:48 GMT]]>@baz but I don't want to make a rule about the maximum number of columns you can possibly have! Someone somewhere will have a very narrow text file and an A0 printer and violate my assumptions.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612159789789917https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612159789789917Thu, 21 May 2026 10:45:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:43:56 GMT]]>@baz --2columns=4 # looks silly but I suppose YKWIM

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612152467081713https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612152467081713Thu, 21 May 2026 10:43:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:41:11 GMT]]>@simontatham CSS also cheated and made “columns” a “multi value with magical defaults” property that takes either or both of count and width. (As best I can tell using a scaling value like “rem” to detect it is width.)

But… that’s probably undesirable in a command line 😃

Link Preview Image
columns CSS property - CSS | MDN

The columns CSS shorthand property sets the maximum number of columns to use when drawing an element's contents, along with the minimum width and maximum height of the element's columns.

favicon

MDN Web Docs (developer.mozilla.org)

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/ewenmcneill/statuses/116612141670771736https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/ewenmcneill/statuses/116612141670771736Thu, 21 May 2026 10:41:11 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:37:18 GMT]]>@ewenmcneill ah, thank you! At least two other people have suggested those names, but I think you're the first to mention that they're already established in an existing context. That does make a difference.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612126406903570https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612126406903570Thu, 21 May 2026 10:37:18 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:36:19 GMT]]>@simontatham in case it helps looks like CSS settled on:

column-count
column-width

For those attributes in its multi column layout. Which is verbose, but at least obvious.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/ewenmcneill/statuses/116612122507454952https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/ewenmcneill/statuses/116612122507454952Thu, 21 May 2026 10:36:19 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:35:52 GMT]]>@ewenmcneill yes, I agree that Srs Typographers just say "columns" without worrying about the ambiguity. And rightly so, because in their situation, there _isn't_ an ambiguity – they're not using a monospaced font, so the other meaning of "columns" isn't even meaningful! I'm sure that's part of the problem, and the reason why there isn't already a well-established unambiguous pair of terms.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612120756267898https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612120756267898Thu, 21 May 2026 10:35:52 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:33:56 GMT]]>@simontatham the layout terms “boxes” and “blocks” could possibly be repurposed for the complicated case (layout verticals). Technically not quite the same thing (neither requires full top to bottom).

To the best of my knowledge publishing (typography) normally uses “columns” for the layout purpose (not the width purpose), and just ignores the width meaning (since it is “whatever fits with given font / weight”).

TeX used boxes as terminology in that context (\hbox and \vbox).

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/ewenmcneill/statuses/116612113106404971https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://cloudisland.nz/users/ewenmcneill/statuses/116612113106404971Thu, 21 May 2026 10:33:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:31:10 GMT]]>@simontatham "columns of text" and "width"

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/kitten_tech/statuses/116612102259843065https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/kitten_tech/statuses/116612102259843065Thu, 21 May 2026 10:31:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:20:18 GMT]]>@simontatham vertical layout divisions? nope, nothing concise.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://techhub.social/users/technicaladept/statuses/116612059500983732https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://techhub.social/users/technicaladept/statuses/116612059500983732Thu, 21 May 2026 10:20:18 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:18:27 GMT]]>@darkling --cpl is actually what I already have for that option name!

Being non-obvious isn't so bad if the aim is to avoid the user mistaking it for the other thing, because if it's not obvious what it means at all, they _know_ they need to read the help more carefully.

The other one, alas, is the hard one.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612052227440197https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612052227440197Thu, 21 May 2026 10:18:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:17:31 GMT]]>@simontatham "Columns of text" and "Characters per line".

Not sure how you'd fit those into short long options, though. (--cpl for the latter, maybe, but it's non-obvious).

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/darkling/statuses/116612048590692391https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/darkling/statuses/116612048590692391Thu, 21 May 2026 10:17:31 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:08:12 GMT]]>@simontatham I wonder how much of what you want to do you are actually able to do with JUST clever names for these flags. Like the man page for each flag should highlight the existence of the other, and maybe that's enough?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mathstodon.xyz/users/Scmbradley/statuses/116612011968340176https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mathstodon.xyz/users/Scmbradley/statuses/116612011968340176Thu, 21 May 2026 10:08:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:06:21 GMT]]>@cunobaros maybe, but I can still imagine "text columns" being ambiguous.

Perhaps I should have been clearer in the original post (but I didn't want to make it too long): one situation I have in mind is that a user hasn't yet noticed that there _are_ two options, because they read the help as far as one of them and then stopped before seeing the other one.

If a user is already thinking "I want 132-column text", and they see that the help offers them --text-columns, then that fits with the words already in their head and they're liable to say "aha, --text-columns=132" before looking further.

There are lots of pairs of words that you can easily tell apart once you notice that both of them exist in the first place. But I want both options to have names unambiguous enough that even if you see one of them on its own, you can't mistake it for the other meaning.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612004695074231https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116612004695074231Thu, 21 May 2026 10:06:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 10:03:22 GMT]]>@simontatham text columns vs character columns?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mendeddrum.org/users/cunobaros/statuses/116611992925186910https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mendeddrum.org/users/cunobaros/statuses/116611992925186910Thu, 21 May 2026 10:03:22 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:56:27 GMT]]>@simontatham I'd probably use something like --width for character columns and --columns for newspaper-columns, but would also print a warning if their values seem too high (80 newspaper-columns) or too low (3 character-columns).

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://gts.iliazeus.lol/users/iliazeus/statuses/01KS4ZE2Q8V2DDFKG7NRBZN8BPhttps://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://gts.iliazeus.lol/users/iliazeus/statuses/01KS4ZE2Q8V2DDFKG7NRBZN8BPThu, 21 May 2026 09:56:27 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:56:14 GMT]]>@simontatham I reckon that "column" in the sense of "number of characters" is a fossil usage in phrases like "80-column text" (and for old computer people such as us, too :)); pretty much everything that involves _setting_ that number calls it "width" or similar (--width as an option).
Newspaper-style columns I'd call --columns or --column-count; most people would, I think, not be confused by this and think that it's about character width. But since some might (you, for a start), --column-count.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/sil/statuses/116611964911506243https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/sil/statuses/116611964911506243Thu, 21 May 2026 09:56:14 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:55:55 GMT]]>@simontatham At the risk of excessive verbosity, --layout-columns and --text-width-columns?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mas.to/users/davebiff/statuses/116611963643103321https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mas.to/users/davebiff/statuses/116611963643103321Thu, 21 May 2026 09:55:55 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:55:21 GMT]]>@thomastc @simontatham I'd go with typographical column vs terminal column.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://beige.party/users/woe2you/statuses/116611961404662087https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://beige.party/users/woe2you/statuses/116611961404662087Thu, 21 May 2026 09:55:21 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:53:37 GMT]]>@Scmbradley that's the easier one. But the other one needs a rename too, because if you have --columns and --width, then a user who sees both options can figure out which is which, but if they only read as far as --columns in the first place, they can leap to the wrong conclusion about what it means.

_Both_ options want to have names that make it obvious that they're not the other one.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116611954620323703https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://hachyderm.io/users/simontatham/statuses/116611954620323703Thu, 21 May 2026 09:53:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:52:42 GMT]]>@simontatham newspaper-style layout block unit vs character-wide length unit. Best that comes to mind.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/tipiak75/statuses/116611951032065933https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/tipiak75/statuses/116611951032065933Thu, 21 May 2026 09:52:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:51:57 GMT]]>@simontatham line width for the 80 column version?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mathstodon.xyz/users/Scmbradley/statuses/116611948080676528https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mathstodon.xyz/users/Scmbradley/statuses/116611948080676528Thu, 21 May 2026 09:51:57 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:50:25 GMT]]>@simontatham I'd consider "pillar" vs "column", perhaps? Not exactly unambiguous, but claiming "pillar" for "arranged in 2 or 3 columns" doesn't seem entirely unreasonable.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/RoganDawes/statuses/116611942011160993https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://infosec.exchange/users/RoganDawes/statuses/116611942011160993Thu, 21 May 2026 09:50:25 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to Terminology: what are good unambiguous names for the two senses of the word "column", when printing text in a monospaced font? on Thu, 21 May 2026 09:49:08 GMT]]>@simontatham "X-character lines" "a Y-column layout".

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://discordian.social/users/RogerBW/statuses/116611937001566058https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://discordian.social/users/RogerBW/statuses/116611937001566058Thu, 21 May 2026 09:49:08 GMT