<![CDATA[The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors.]]>The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. One reason for this is that upstream projects are at the mercy of downstream distributions, who have the final say.

As an upstream contributor, you have no choice but to meticulously plead for any reasonable request to be granted by the downstream contributors, treating them as if they were some kind of deity. Not doing so with the utmost respect can get you on their naughty list, which they can then use against you just because they can, and because the license allows it — they will even play the 'you chose the wrong license' card when they have nothing else to say.

The idea that the distribution model expects users to report issues to downstream is no longer valid. In reality, many distributions advertise themselves as user-friendly. Users of these distributions are unaware of the distribution model, so they report issues to upstream rather than downstream. Often, these bug reports and feature requests have already been solved in previous releases, so the upstream team has to regularly triage and close duplicate and outdated bug reports. This creates an additional burden for upstream because they end up spending their limited volunteer time managing these issues when it should be the responsibility of the downstream.

Whenever the upstream project reaches out to the downstream distribution and asks for a change, the response is usually with the downstream pretending to look for a solution by first asking for a list of bugs to be found and compiled, essentially shifting the responsibility back to the upstream team to start a virtual machine just to test the package and find bugs. If upstream objects to this absurd request, downstream proposes unrelated or unrealistic 'solutions', such as adapting the issue tracker or switching to a proprietary license, just to avoid doing any actual work. Eventually, when the tone of the upstream project changes, the downstream makes remarks on that tone and starts acting like they are the reasonable one; they end the discussion and continue misleading users into reporting to the upstream project, but this time intentionally and out of spite, just to continue avoiding taking responsibility and accountability.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/topic/3e252981-41e6-46d7-9055-63948c619ed7/the-linux-desktop-has-a-maintenance-problem-due-to-the-lack-of-volunteer-contributors.RSS for NodeThu, 14 May 2026 23:37:51 GMTMon, 11 May 2026 15:47:50 GMT60<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 19:14:56 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty @m @TheEvilSkeleton

From what I can tell, the root problem is resources burnt and reputation damage created by users getting old software.

Imo there's a fair case that the one who packages is to be the first line of support that maybe informs upstream.

To solve that problem there are many options. Adjusting the support link, branding, only shipping the flatpak etc. would be some possibilities.

Which way to go imo would be up to a calm discussion between distro and upstream, no?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Isofruit/statuses/116557538701797107https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Isofruit/statuses/116557538701797107Mon, 11 May 2026 19:14:56 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 19:14:49 GMT]]>@Isofruit @TheEvilSkeleton I still think the packager is responsible for the initial triage. Packaging mistakes are a thing and sometimes they won't notice new dependencies or other configuration changes. It should not be pushed upstream until they are certain they did everything right.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://retrogaming.social/users/reflex/statuses/116557538217014278https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://retrogaming.social/users/reflex/statuses/116557538217014278Mon, 11 May 2026 19:14:49 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 19:01:42 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty Knowingly distributing an old release of an app to a large, tech-illiterate audience, with hundreds of known bugs, pretending it’s the latest and greatest, and the support link pointing to the upstream issue tracker, is not “Long Term Support”. I’d say it’s the opposite, because this kind of abuse is actually damaging to the long-term survival of the upstream project.

If I were a GNOME Calendar developer, I’d be furious.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.tchncs.de/users/jwh/statuses/116557486627452509https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.tchncs.de/users/jwh/statuses/116557486627452509Mon, 11 May 2026 19:01:42 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:52:39 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton I'm not sure if my work environment hardened me in that direction or if it's just because I'm reaching my mid thirties and am thus basically dead, but I think being more relaxed would've been the solution.

Just repeatedly forcing the topic back to the point - and ideally from the jump not giving them the chance to get distracted.

IIRC Sebastian Wick similarly had an issue with a PR where imo he escalated too quickly (if you follow him on Mastodon you'll know).

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Isofruit/statuses/116557451034509190https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Isofruit/statuses/116557451034509190Mon, 11 May 2026 18:52:39 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:51:37 GMT]]>@bragefuglseth @TheEvilSkeleton If you do decide to write one (or one about distro-packaging in general), feel free to send me a message, I have an additional argument that I'm happy to share (I don't want to share it before, it would ruin the fun :)).

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://floss.social/users/FineFindus/statuses/116557447030851256https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://floss.social/users/FineFindus/statuses/116557447030851256Mon, 11 May 2026 18:51:37 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:46:41 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty A distro is in general responsible to fix bugs downstream, that are fixed upstream. Be it by shipping new releases or backporting fixes.

A bug, not present in upstream is considered a downstream issue. Pointing to upstream feels a useless. How should upstream even deal with it, if downstream doesn't Backport the fixes to begin with?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/fabiscafe/statuses/116557427596942300https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mstdn.social/users/fabiscafe/statuses/116557427596942300Mon, 11 May 2026 18:46:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:46:41 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton @reflex From a purist perspective? Whoever packages the code is to be the person that gets to triage, that was where I was going with what I wrote.

So in the case of unofficial flathub packages, whoever makes those packages is imo supposed to be the one that checks if they're just outdated or still true.

From a pragmatist standpoint, if that particular flatpack is known to package new releases quickly, you could again make the case that it'd be valid to go to upstream.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Isofruit/statuses/116557427622553993https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/Isofruit/statuses/116557427622553993Mon, 11 May 2026 18:46:41 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:42:44 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton @linuxmint @nekohayo

I have no horse in this race but it seems to me that the Mint dev was reasonable. He explained the same issue exists in Debian and Ubuntu (i.e. the About dialogue links to the Gnome Calendar repo) and he offered to patch the dialogue in Mint.

You then said you weren't interested in the "intricacies" and repeated your demand that they fork Calendar. I get your frustration but I understand why they closed the issue.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://troet.cafe/users/rohare/statuses/116557412056796342https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://troet.cafe/users/rohare/statuses/116557412056796342Mon, 11 May 2026 18:42:44 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:41:24 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton I think this would fit nicely into a blog post! Would also be a lot easier to link to for future reference.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sunny.garden/users/bragefuglseth/statuses/116557406849217744https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://sunny.garden/users/bragefuglseth/statuses/116557406849217744Mon, 11 May 2026 18:41:24 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:37:20 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton @Isofruit In my opinion unofficial flatpaks should be more clearly marked as unofficial. I don't think the project should be responsible for community packaging mistakes, and I think users should understand the risk of anything they install.

So no, I think it should get reported to the packager (potentially via flathub). Adding a reporting link to the repo it was built from would be a good thing. Another way to verify ownership.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://retrogaming.social/users/reflex/statuses/116557390870713296https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://retrogaming.social/users/reflex/statuses/116557390870713296Mon, 11 May 2026 18:37:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:37:10 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton @nekohayo It's weird to me that Linux Mint seems to always be the recommendation for beginners. I hope GNOME OS becomes stable soon, such that it may seriously start getting pushed as the beginner-friendly distro.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/vtrlx/statuses/116557390207436505https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.social/users/vtrlx/statuses/116557390207436505Mon, 11 May 2026 18:37:10 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:35:32 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty @FineFindus @TheEvilSkeleton @linuxmint @nekohayo This take is misinformed about how copyright works, trademarks work, and licenses work

The short summary is:
- yes, stealing someone's work without credit is plagiarism and possibly copyright infringement
- at the same time, having a derivative product that uses the upstream project's trademarks to confuse customers and imply a level of endorsement or support is possibly trademark infringement

Both can be true at once

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/AdrianVovk/statuses/116557383757947835https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/AdrianVovk/statuses/116557383757947835Mon, 11 May 2026 18:35:32 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:27:07 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton@treehouse.systems @leniwcowaty@fosstodon.org They are just angry person defending their fav distro. They have no interest in actual discussion

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.catgirl.cloud/ap/users/115437022933800913/statuses/116557350647746315https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.catgirl.cloud/ap/users/115437022933800913/statuses/116557350647746315Mon, 11 May 2026 18:27:07 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:25:38 GMT]]>@FineFindus yeah :(. There's a reason why I've progressively become more vocal and hostile towards these kinds of people, especially those in position of power

@leniwcowaty

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557344826761005https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557344826761005Mon, 11 May 2026 18:25:38 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:25:36 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty@fosstodon.org @FineFindus@floss.social @TheEvilSkeleton@treehouse.systems @linuxmint@mastodon.social @nekohayo@mastodon.social I mean, it's still software licensed under GPL, anyone is free to fork. With Calender it happened many times before and will happen again. It's fine, that's how free software lives.

There are people butthurt over forking their software, but I doubt you'll see them in GNOME.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.catgirl.cloud/ap/users/115437022933800913/statuses/116557344734252876https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://mastodon.catgirl.cloud/ap/users/115437022933800913/statuses/116557344734252876Mon, 11 May 2026 18:25:36 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:19:19 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty @TheEvilSkeleton @linuxmint @nekohayo I doubt it, considering they are explicitly asked to change branding.
Once again there is also a difference between having 'GNOME Calendar' with a link to the GNOME issuetracker and a forked 'Mint Calendar' which has a credit line in the about section.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://floss.social/users/FineFindus/statuses/116557319987746550https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://floss.social/users/FineFindus/statuses/116557319987746550Mon, 11 May 2026 18:19:19 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:17:12 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty

> company

Are you being paid to maintain these systems?

@m

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557311683031788https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557311683031788Mon, 11 May 2026 18:17:12 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:14:48 GMT]]>@FineFindus @TheEvilSkeleton @linuxmint @nekohayo ah yes, and if a distro changes the branding, the developer will come after them for changing the branding. Because how could they steal our project?! They should give credits, link to the upstream! And don't tell me, this doesn't happen...

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/leniwcowaty/statuses/116557302227638142https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/leniwcowaty/statuses/116557302227638142Mon, 11 May 2026 18:14:48 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:14:29 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty @TheEvilSkeleton They clearly and repeatedly stated that most issues about outdated versions are logged by Mint users.

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.tchncs.de/users/jwh/statuses/116557301000531382https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.tchncs.de/users/jwh/statuses/116557301000531382Mon, 11 May 2026 18:14:29 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:13:58 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty genuine question, have you read the entirety of my post? I explain why I don't take issue with Debian and Ubuntu

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557298957731678https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557298957731678Mon, 11 May 2026 18:13:58 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:13:20 GMT]]>@leniwcowaty @TheEvilSkeleton @linuxmint @nekohayo There is a difference between shipping outdated packages and offloading your issues to upstream. Distributions can (and should) ship outdated software with changed branding.

> You have NO RIGHT to request removal of a package

Statements like this make me seriously question whether I should publish any of my work under an open source license, which I think is a rather sad thing 😞

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://floss.social/users/FineFindus/statuses/116557296486189403https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://floss.social/users/FineFindus/statuses/116557296486189403Mon, 11 May 2026 18:13:20 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:13:17 GMT]]>@m @TheEvilSkeleton well, so what? Should we outlaw LTS distros, on the offchance, that their user will file a bug report regarding an older version? Maybe GNOME apps should refuse to install on anything except Arch?

I'm a sysadmin. On a daily basis I get issue reports regarding systems that run for example Debian 12. For stuff that is fixed in latest Arch. Should I now force the entire company to switch their servers to Arch, because I don't feel like dealing with these issues?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/leniwcowaty/statuses/116557296300459710https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/leniwcowaty/statuses/116557296300459710Mon, 11 May 2026 18:13:17 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:09:53 GMT]]>@Isofruit at the beginning, I actually wanted to cooperate, but after that first comment of his, it was pretty clear to me that he didn't even spend 5 minutes to read the actual issue, and instead cherry picked parts of messages. Like, that's what he does later too

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557282928757872https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://social.treehouse.systems/users/TheEvilSkeleton/statuses/116557282928757872Mon, 11 May 2026 18:09:53 GMT<![CDATA[Reply to The Linux desktop has a maintenance problem due to the lack of volunteer contributors. on Mon, 11 May 2026 18:06:07 GMT]]>@TheEvilSkeleton and besides - please answer me, why is Mint the ONLY distro, which you try to force to remove/rebrand GNOME Calendar, based on the fact, that it ships outdated version (which is expected by an LTS distro)?
Why didn't you file such request for Ubuntu LTS? For Debian? They also package GNOME Calendar 46 and 48 respectively. Their users experience the same bugs as Mint users. And I bet, their users also come to the upstream to file bug reports. Why are you ONLY pursuing Mint?

]]>https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/leniwcowaty/statuses/116557268064716281https://board.circlewithadot.net/post/https://fosstodon.org/users/leniwcowaty/statuses/116557268064716281Mon, 11 May 2026 18:06:07 GMT